WK308-A. The concept

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My advice:

Make it as compatible with AR-10 parts and accessories as possible... Pistol grips, butt stocks, hand guards, these are all things guys live to swap out. Even better if you do standard triggers and BCG as well.

Super bonus points for a barrel nut so guys can switch out their barrels.

Then... In addition to whatever complete rifle you sell,
also Sell upper + lower kits with none of the accessories.
(...Maybe upper + lower + BCG + barrel if your market research says so.)

My point is, I have OEM factory stocks, grips, trigger parts and all sorts of other stuff just littering my gun junk drawer.

It would keep the price down, and guys like me don't want to pay for parts we are not going to keep or use.
 
8lbs.
SR25 compatible
Able to use 7.62 surplus
$1,600
Pencil-ish barrel(chrome lined...haha)
Thanks Mr. Wolverine for taking such a huge amount of your time to try and give all of us some more options in this crazy market!
 
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I am not trying picking on anyone at all, but I really don't see the point of going through all this just to make another 4moa 308 semi.

If it could be
1) reliable
2) 1-2moa (this is actually not unreasonable)
3) somewhat reasonably priced

That would already put it miles ahead of the other non restricted semi 308's that either too expensive and or not living up to their accuracy or reliability claims.

Our current market is so weird some NR semi 308's manage to have all 3 things wrong: Expensive, unreliable, inaccurate.
 
inthewoods said:
I am not trying picking on anyone at all, but I really don't see the point of going through all this just to make another 4moa 308 semi.

If it could be
1) reliable
2) 1-2moa (this is actually not unreasonable)
3) somewhat reasonably priced

That would already put it miles ahead of the other non restricted semi 308's that either too expensive and or not living up to their accuracy or reliability claims.

Our current market is so weird some NR semi 308's manage to have all 3 things wrong: Expensive, unreliable, inaccurate.
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In my tested and true experience, a lot of reliability and accuracy issues are operator error, not the gun. Every time someone says "it's a 4moa gun, it's crap!" I have taken it and gotten at least 1.5MOA out of it without doing any reloading (just factory ammo). And have seen a ton of malfunctions caused by improper shooting technique and operation. This forum is full of inexperienced shooters which is fine, but as soon as they start acting like they are a US Marine sniper and "know everything", and say "this gun can't do this because I know what I'm doing" I cant help but laugh. Most people on here have no training and have put less than 2k through all of their firearms combined. Rant complete.
 
less ar10 ish and more com bloc. I’m thinking .308 scaled up cz858. There’s already the bcl102 and black leafs new project for those who want ARish. Give me something stupid simple and rugged.
 
Non-restricted, with a price tag well under $1500, say in the $1300-1400 window.

Steel should be phosphated, aluminum type III anodized.

Weight limit of 4kg would be excellent, but let's face it, among the major cold war battle rifles only the M14 managed to officially be under this (in practice I don't think any were).

Supplied with good, usable open sights, plus an integral or detachable sight rail on the top of the receiver.

The barrel and trigger should be standard designs so that they are easily swapped out by those seeking better accuracy or whatever.
 
driller212 said:
In my tested and true experience, a lot of reliability and accuracy issues are operator error, not the gun. Every time someone says "it's a 4moa gun, it's crap!" I have taken it and gotten at least 1.5MOA out of it without doing any reloading (just factory ammo). And have seen a ton of malfunctions caused by improper shooting technique and operation. This forum is full of inexperienced shooters which is fine, but as soon as they start acting like they are a US Marine sniper and "know everything", and say "this gun can't do this because I know what I'm doing" I cant help but laugh. Most people on here have no training and have put less than 2k through all of their firearms combined. Rant complete.
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so what? you rant is aimed at the wrong person.

"inexperienced shooter who thinks they're a marine sniper". I doubt that was directed at me anyway. 35 years of shooting experience here, not that it matters. btw I said some manage to get all three wrong. What this forum is full of is rude people who don't mind going off half cocked.

I mean 1-2moa before user error and wind, of course.

I'm not even going to argue with you about the current market. We can agree to disagree about the non-restricted semi 308 market. It's too expensive and/or QC control issues and/or accuracy issues.

Then when you go restricted, the price drops, and the accuracy can be good without paying massive money. Time to close that gap a little.
 
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I really prefer piston guns, but I can definitely agree for those wanting compatibility and after market options.

Otherwise I would still be beating the drum on making modular designs, ala Canadian purpose built XCR like rifles =)

Since this will never be, DI maybe a better option unless parts kits will be readily available. What's tried and true, I guess.

Travis Bickle said:
DI would be preferable if it's possible.
Primarily because it would then be full compatible with AR10 available DPMS pattern barrels, FSB's, gas tubes etc etc
The AR15 DI system is awesome. The venting of excess gas from the side of the bolt is ingenious. Even a bad frankenbuilt heavily overgassed setup will be somewhat protected by this feature.
A simplified DI system which will mate up with a standard AR10 gas tube would be very interesting.
Mechanically some kind of combination of the AR180 bolt carrier and bolt with an amalgamation of a gas key on top and a cross bored venting hole behind the bolt ala AR15/AR10.
Essentially a reduced complexity DI AR15/AR10 carrier.
Would be interesting but I would assume this would raise the cost of the overall product due to development and design sadly.
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inthewoods said:
so what? you rant is aimed at the wrong person.

"inexperienced shooter who thinks they're a marine sniper". I doubt that was directed at me anyway. 35 years of shooting experience here, not that it matters. btw I said some manage to get all three wrong. What this forum is full of is rude people who don't mind going off half cocked.

I mean 1-2moa before user error and wind, of course.

I'm not even going to argue with you about the current market. We can agree to disagree about the non-restricted semi 308 market. It's too expensive and/or QC control issues and/or accuracy issues.

Then when you go restricted, the price drops, and the accuracy can be good without paying massive money. Time to close that gap a little.
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Definitely not directed at you, I apologize if it came across that way. Just this accuracy crap always comes up and everyone wants a bloody laser beam when they are the real problem :p

I know you are referring to ATRS MH and the BCL-102, both of which are good. The MH I managed Sub MOA when I had one (no surprise there), and the BCL-102 1.5MOA at best (more of 2moa in real life situations). The XCR-M gets better accuracy than people give it credit for as well... This is my personal experience, and others seems to have varied, but I only trust what I can see and touch.

Cheaper better quality guns are always going to be good obviously.
 
driller212 said:
Definitely not directed at you, I apologize if it came across that way. Just this accuracy crap always comes up and everyone wants a bloody laser beam when they are the real problem :p

I know you are referring to ATRS MH and the BCL-102, both of which are good. The MH I managed Sub MOA when I had one (no surprise there), and the BCL-102 1.5MOA at best (more of 2moa in real life situations). The XCR-M gets better accuracy than people give it credit for as well... This is my personal experience, and others seems to have varied, but I only trust what I can see and touch.

Cheaper better quality guns are always going to be good obviously.
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haha okay bud, sorry I got a little miffed there. It's a weird coincidence but I was watching your youtube vids last night (very good btw).

Too bad we can't have the scar 308 in Canada, its not front heavy but still moa with it's light barrel. cheers.
 
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inthewoods said:
haha okay bud, sorry I got a little miffed there. It's a weird coincidence but I was watching your youtube vids last night (very good btw).

Too bad we can't have the scar 308 in Canada, its not front heavy but still moa with it's light barrel. cheers.
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Nah they are amateur at best. I hope to bring the quality up in the future when I have more time and $$$ for camera equipment and editing software.

Well IRG submitted one a while back that was modified to what the RCMP wanted, but the price tag will guaranteed be ridiculous. It is an interesting platform to be able to do that.
 
driller212 said:
Nah they are amateur at best. I hope to bring the quality up in the future when I have more time and $$$ for camera equipment and editing software.

Well IRG submitted one a while back that was modified to what the RCMP wanted, but the price tag will guaranteed be ridiculous. It is an interesting platform to be able to do that.
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The info in the vids is good though, straight to the point. Yeah as I wrote that about the scar I cringed, because even in the states it's over priced. lol
 
tiriaq said:
If the rifle were designed and manufactured to use AICS pattern magazines, would that make all AICS pattern magazines subject to 5 round limit?

Look what happened with the Ruger 10/22 magazine.
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Well there isn't really any mechanism in law that can see the status of a rifle magazine change just because some other rifle was invented.

It was the introduction of the charger pistol into the market place that upset the apple cart, and originally it was only those magazines that were designed/produced after the introduction of the charger into Canada which were prohibited, which was later expanded to include all magazines that were of ambiguous design intent dating after the Charger was first invented.

Now just because the law says it ain't so, doesn't mean the RCMP won't try some funky business hoping the risk of court is enough to deter smart people from trying.

Steve_B said:
Uh, well except for this one if the specific suggestion being discussed is adopted.
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VinnyQC said:
So? The magazines has still been "designed and manufactured" for bolt action rifles. Whatever you use them in, the device is legal or it isn't.
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That is true for magazines that existed before the WK308. Any 11+ round AICS compatible mag invented by a 3rd party in Canada could easily be accused of manufacturing that magazine specifically for the WK308. Which Is why I suggested some other 3rd party do the mags, and get them out there before the WK 308 goes live. Would be even better if AICS themselves did it, but then those mags would cost a fortune.
 
ted_dent said:
Let's face it John, as with the WK-180 the big selling point is that it's a "non-restricted" black rifle so use the same basic concept with the WK-308. A reliable, decent accuracy, basic rifle built on a non-restricted receiver with a maximum of interchangeability with the AR-10/LR308/AR-15 platforms so that parts availability isn't an issue and people can pimp it out to their heart's content re handguards, triggers, stocks, etc. A price point in the $1400-1500 range (the lower the better) and weight under 8 pounds and it's an instant winner. You'll have to open your own factory just to keep up with demand.

And keep the great ideas coming.:cool:
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In the end this will likely be the most obvious route and sound advice.
The 180c looks rock solid. As long as it's reliable and the design can handle the 7.62mm cartridge then you probably already have a winner.
Just put a straight up pencil barrel on it this time around!
 
hunterhenderson said:
compatible with AIA 10 round mags
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I'd rather XCR-M pistol mags, personally.

Also, AR-16 style furniture, please.

IMG_0009_s.jpg
 
Cameron SS said:
...That is true for magazines that existed before the WK308. Any 11+ round AICS compatible mag invented by a 3rd party in Canada could easily be accused of manufacturing that magazine specifically for the WK308. Which Is why I suggested some other 3rd party do the mags, and get them out there before the WK 308 goes live. Would be even better if AICS themselves did it, but then those mags would cost a fortune.
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There are a number of manufacturers who produce AICS pattern magazines, for use in a number of different firearms and chassis. If is a very popular system.

Keep in mind that the Government is giving the RCMP SFSS carte blanche to classify things.
 
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