Lead bullets “shaved” during seating. Need advice.

McHoss

McHoss

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
38   0   0
Location
New Brunswick.
Lead bullets “shaved” during seating. Need advice.

I just started loading for .357. I am using Hornady 158 lead RN bullets with Unique powder and my own once fired brass. The first 24 test rounds I made the other day seated fine and all worked well in my GP100. I checked the live rounds in the cylinder after firing a couple shots to look for bullet creep and all were still fine.
Today I wanted to make some more rounds and had some trouble when seating the bullets. A good number of the bullets are really loose in the case neck. To the point I can easily push them in with my thumb. There was some shaving (not sure if that’s the term) happening when I would seat the bullets. What I mean is there was lots of lead chips, shavings and even rings falling out of the die. The brass was all sized with the same die. I also expanded it all with the same die. I only expand a small amount to keep good neck tension. I don’t crimp while seating. I seat, remove the seating plunger and then crimp. The COL listed for that bullet is 1.159, which seems a tad short to me. I say that because the mouth of the case is very slightly above the shoulder of the bullets when seated at that COL so the crimp doesn’t “bite” the bullet so to speak.
Oddly, this only affected about 8-10 rounds and the others all seem fine. Although, I haven’t pushed very hard on any of the other bullets to see if they move too.
Any thoughts?
 
You need an expander die to open just the case mouth properly before seating the bullet. You need a crimp die to crimp the case after the bullet is seated. I suggest using the Lee powder through expander and then a Lee collet crimp die for each operation.

COAL should be 1.59 not 1.159. Brass should be 1.29 which leaves 0.3 inches of the bullet sticking out, just about 5/16". I suspect that the crimping phase is pushing that bullet in further/too far.
 
Last edited:
McHoss said:
The COL listed for that bullet is 1.159, which seems a tad short to me. I say that because the mouth of the case is very slightly above the shoulder of the bullets when seated at that COL so the crimp doesn’t “bite” the bullet so to speak.
Click to expand...

Pick your own OAL and find a published load close to that, or use the load you have now and make the OAL longer..... the pressure will be going down doing that anyway.

I agree with rick357 that crimp is way too heavy and you need to increase your OAL. Max OAL (SAAMI spec) is 1.590

When I load 357 Mag I use a light crimp (I'm using plated projectiles). Easier on the brass as well.

My method - Deprime/resize/prime, expand case mouth, seat, crimp. Progressive press with 4 dies. I always seat and crimp separately (as you seem to do).

I load lead projectiles in 45LC on a single stage and still expand the case mouth before seating. Way easier on the bullets when seating.
 
rick357 said:
You need an expander die to open just the case mouth properly before seating the bullet. You need a crimp die to crimp the case after the bullet is seated. I suggest using the Lee powder through expander and then a Lee collet crimp die for each operation.

COAL should be 1.59 not 1.159. Brass should be 1.29 which leaves 0.3 inches of the bullet sticking out, just about 5/16". I suspect that the crimping phase is pushing that bullet in further/too far.
Click to expand...
I made a mistake when I typed the COL. it is in fact 1.59.
I use both the Lee dies you mentioned.
 
Paul_T said:
Pick your own OAL and find a published load close to that, or use the load you have now and make the OAL longer..... the pressure will be going down doing that anyway.

I agree with rick357 that crimp is way too heavy and you need to increase your OAL. Max OAL (SAAMI spec) is 1.590

When I load 357 Mag I use a light crimp (I'm using plated projectiles). Easier on the brass as well.

My method - Deprime/resize/prime, expand case mouth, seat, crimp. Progressive press with 4 dies. I always seat and crimp separately (as you seem to do).

I load lead projectiles in 45LC on a single stage and still expand the case mouth before seating. Way easier on the bullets when seating.
Click to expand...
The COL I quoted was wrong. I mistakenly wrote 1.159 when it’s in fact 1.59. I follow the same process as you for loading. I have a 4 hole turret press. I used it single stage for these because they were only test loads and I was only making 50.
The crimp is tight because it’s all that holds the bullets in. Lol. Without the crimp that tight the bullets rotate freely by hand in the case mouth.
How far down do you adjust the case mouth expanding die?
 
Just as an FYI.
I have also loaded for .45 ACP and 9mm (about 200 rounds so far) which went perfectly. I used a much smaller crimp on those loads as they were plated bullets (Campro).
 
OP - You've just answered your own question. By not setting the expander die to open the case mouth sufficiently, you are shaving the OD of the bullet. This causes the bullet to slip in the case, and your heavy crimp doesn't compensate.
 
McHoss said:
...How far down do you adjust the case mouth expanding die?
Click to expand...

That would be your powder-through-expander die on the Lee press. With those flat-base bullets you'll need to adjust it down a bit more than for bevel-base. Just enough that the bullet will enter the case. Also, not sure what those bullets are but if they're cast from soft-ish alloy - and therefore not being driven very fast, say <1100 fps - you colud probably get away without even using the FCD and just set the bullet seating die to do a bit of crimp, as you would n=do with .38 Spec. With a 4-die setup, often the bullet seating die is set just to remove the flare from the case, but it can be turned in a bit to add a little taper crimp as well. As someone else commented, I think your final crimp is unnecessarily tight. 1/2 of that would probably be OK.
 
laurencen said:
lead seated too deep causing crimp to try to grab the reduced diameter of the lead
Click to expand...

ANd that also allows the bullet to slip down, getting loose as it's crimping on the ogive. As far as LOA, as long as they don't stick out of the cylinder and aren't super hot loads, you should have no issues. It's been a looong time since I've loaded for revolvers, but I don't recall length being an issue the way it is with semi's or most rifles.
 
McHoss said:
How far down do you adjust the case mouth expanding die?
Click to expand...

I expand about 10-15 thou at the case mouth

It is odd to me that those bullets are seated so deep if you are already loading to Max OAL. Load one or two longer and see if your cylinder will turn.

I had some issues with old 45LC Dominion Brass - when I ran them through the same resizer as my other brass the bullets basically fell into the case with no neck expansion required.
It seemed like the elasticity of the brass was gone and the only way to hold the bullets was to heavily crimp. I wound up tossing those cases.

cosmic said:
OP - You've just answered your own question. By not setting the expander die to open the case mouth sufficiently, you are shaving the OD of the bullet. This causes the bullet to slip in the case, and your heavy crimp doesn't compensate.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking this is more what is happening....
 
I will lower my powder through expanding die to open the neck some more and see if that helps.

So what should I do with these rounds? Pull them apart and start over?
The powder is Unique and only 4.5gr, so pretty light.
 
Ganderite said:
Shoot them. They will go bang just fine.
Click to expand...
Thanks. That’s what I was hoping to do.
I’ve got an idea....you are a reloading guru, I can find my way around sharpening a chainsaw.......you wanna come for a visit and we can swap some knowledge? It’s nice in NB this time of year. ;)
 
Sure. It is even nicer here in Southern Ontario.

Bring your sharpening gear and teach me how to use my new Stihl hand sharpener.

I can check you out on a single stage, turret, a 550 Dillon and a 650 Dillon.

In the mean time, flare the case mouth enough so a bullet sits in without touching the case mouth.
 
444shooter said:
I like the Lyman M dies for cast bullets.
Click to expand...

I also like the Lyman type "M" dies, they help seat the bullets straight without any bullet tipping. And you can start the bullets into the case with just your fingers.

Below is the Lyman type "M" expander, I normally only bump the case mouth on to the B illustration and stop not belling the case mouth. This just expands the case mouth slightly larger than bullet diameter and the bullets start straight in the case with no tipping or scraping the bullet.

udv9J6k.jpg


Below is a photo of the Lyman type "M" expander for a .223, the main expander is .003 smaller than bullet diameter. And I just bump the case mouth onto the .226 section and start the bullets with my fingers. This allows for straight inline seating without any bullet tipping and more concentric ammunition.

ohIUcpd.png


The Lyman type "M" expander patent expired and I know Redding pistol dies now have the same type expander.

Below the center die is the new Redding expander like the Lyman type "M" expander.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom