Loose 9mm bullet
- Thread starter rayzorloo
- Start date
I have this happen every now and then, but it seems only with my 9mm. When I go to seat the bullet, it slides in to the brass way too easily, and it makes me worry that by the time I go to fire it, theough storage, travel and handling, that the bullet will seat too deep and cause pressure issues etc. If I run it theough the re sizing die and it is still too loose, I tend to discard that piece, assuming that its just been fired a few too many times.
Lee makes a undersized 9mm carbide die that makes the case .002 to .003 smaller in diameter for increased bullet grip.
The cases become work hardened the more it is resized and expanded. And this causes the brass to spring back more after sizing.
Many competitive shooters have this problem and use the undersized die with the cases they pickup at the range.
Bottom line, you loose bullet grip with work hardened brass and the undersized die sizes the case smaller to increase bullet grip.
Lee U Carbide Undersized Sizing Die
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012827841/lee-u-carbide-undersized-sizing-die
The cases become work hardened the more it is resized and expanded. And this causes the brass to spring back more after sizing.
Many competitive shooters have this problem and use the undersized die with the cases they pickup at the range.
Bottom line, you loose bullet grip with work hardened brass and the undersized die sizes the case smaller to increase bullet grip.
Lee U Carbide Undersized Sizing Die
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012827841/lee-u-carbide-undersized-sizing-die
Or just buy more brass, the local indoor ranges here sell it for $50-$80 per 1000 pieces, I just throw out any 9mm or 45 auto brass that shows any problems. It's so cheap it's not worth putting any extra work into.
To dispose of the loose ones I would hand feed them so you know they won't get pushed back and let the brass be lost in the grass (or garbage can).
Just my opinion YMMV
The problem is finding these cases before they are loaded, and I know of no method of finding them. The case is tapered and the mouth of the case is .010 smaller in diameter than its base. You size the case then expand and bell the case mouth and taper crimp. This work hardeneds the case area that grips the bullet and the brass springs back more after sizing. The way to compensate for the brass spring back is to size the case slightly smaller. And on a rifle case they anneal the shoulder and neck area to make the brass softer again but this is not done on pistol cases.
I do not have this problem with .357 magnum or .40 S&W cases because they have little to no taper. But the 9mm is noted for this brass spring back problem especially with thinner cases.
I buy bulk once fired military Winchester 9mm brass that is thinner and size them with a under size Lee die. And this saves any problem with bullet grip and loose bullets.
You are correct the brass is cheap and to trash the bad cases, "BUT" you don't find the loose bullets until they are loaded. And the undersized die prevents this and extends you case life.
The Lee under size die only sizes the case .002 to .003 smaller in diameter to compensate for brass spring back and still have enough bullet grip. And if you have good eyes you "might" see the case is a smidgen more wasp waisted and has more than enough bullet grip.
Bottom line, resizing dies have a plus and minus manufacturing tolerances and its your "fat" die and skinny brass that causes the problem.
Look at the charts below, there is .004 difference in neck diameter between brands of resizing dies after sizing. And the 9mm loose bullet problem can be caused by the die or the expander. And the Lee under size die simply ensures proper bullet grip after expanding the case.
Are Your Sizing Dies Overworking Your Rifle Brass?
http://www.massreloading.com/dies_overworking_brass.html
Quick Tip: Undersized Resizing Die - Reloading
EGW Undersize Reloading Die, 9mm Luger (modified Lee undersized die)
http://www.egwguns.com/smithing-tooling/undersize-reloading-die-9mm-luger/
A must for the serious reloader: EGW offers custom designed, carbide sizing dies that are 0.003" smaller in diameter than typical dies. Not only is it smaller in diameter, but the bottom corner is also radiused which sizes the case further down. This helps prevent feed failures from cases that bulged near the base during reloading- which is typical of brass fired in Glocks and other loose chambered guns.
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Can you tell me...speaking of shooting competitively, would a 'loose' bullet being fired affect accuracy? I have read somewhere on here that some pressure may escape therefore the bullet may not stay true as it should if bullet was 'tight'. Any truth to accuracy being affected? Of course assuming it does not get pushed in deeper and result in dangerous pressure being built up.
The bullet will fire as normal. I use a Lee carbide set with 4 dies. One of them is a crimp die which helps with the problem you mention but also makes for more reliable feeds.
I can’t see this happening with a properly setup taper crimp which IS required.
Undersized resizing die will not help this problem as your are opening up the mouth at the powder station (expender die). It will only help feeding.
Which setup do you have?
Ever mesure mouth case with a caliper on finished rounds?
I would recrimp them if I knew I had a batch with loose bullets, you could blow your gun if it get pushed too much.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Greater Vancouver, BC
A very loose bullet will not contain the pressure of the burning propellant and may result in incomplete burning and lower pressure, in the worst case, a squib.
Depending on the lead of the rifling, the projectile may be just touching the rifling and therefore the rifling will hold the pressure and the powder will burn almost normally.
I have not experienced loose bullets but I have noticed that Federal and Blazer brass have thinner walls than Winchester, Geco, IVI, R-P, S&B.
Thinner walls mean that the inside diameter of re-sized Federal and Blazer brass are larger than Winchester, etc. It means the case will have less neck tension on the bullet. It takes considerably less pressure on the reloader handle, to seat bullets in Federal and Blazer brass. My re-loaded Federal brass has hardly any bulge while Winchester etc brass have very noticeable bulges.
Depending on the lead of the rifling, the projectile may be just touching the rifling and therefore the rifling will hold the pressure and the powder will burn almost normally.
I have not experienced loose bullets but I have noticed that Federal and Blazer brass have thinner walls than Winchester, Geco, IVI, R-P, S&B.
Thinner walls mean that the inside diameter of re-sized Federal and Blazer brass are larger than Winchester, etc. It means the case will have less neck tension on the bullet. It takes considerably less pressure on the reloader handle, to seat bullets in Federal and Blazer brass. My re-loaded Federal brass has hardly any bulge while Winchester etc brass have very noticeable bulges.
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Dillon dies are noted for sizing closer to minimum SAAMI case dimension.
Below a carbide Dillon full length .308 die that sized a once fired soft Federal case and it plowed the brass at the base of the case. "BUT" Remington .308 cases did not have this problem, so the Federal case was softer and larger in diameter.
Chambers and dies vary in size with their plus and minus manufacturing tolerances.
I have four 9mm dies, a standard Lee carbide die and a undersized Lee carbide die, a RCBS carbide die and a Hornady titanium nitrite coated die. And I do "NOT" like the Hornady titanium nitrite coated die because takes much more effort to size the case even after I polished it.
I use the Lee undersize die and a Lyman type "M" expander 99.9% of the time. The Lyman expander is just under .353 and the second step of the expander is .357 and a 9mm bullet is .355.
And the point being I'm loading for 3 pistols my son has and two that I have, and "dad" isn't going to load any loose bullet ammo for his son or myself. I'm buying bulk once fired military Winchester brass and also use range pickup brass and I want a good grip on the bullet.
This doesn't mean "your die" will not do the job for you, "BUT" again dies can vary in diameter along with the expander. Example I ordered a carbide expander for my Redding .243 die and its diameter is .2428. And when I contacted Redding they said the expander was within specifications. Sorry but a expander that is .0002 smaller in diameter than the bullet is worthless when I'm looking for a expander .002 (two thousandths) smaller than bullet diameter.
So measuring the cases before and after sizing will tell you a good deal, along with measuring your expander diameter to solve problems.
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