Well I got my rifle back from inspection...

Deathrawt

Deathrawt

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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I got my rifle back from North Sylva today and according to the inspection ticket the headspace was confirmed to be bad and the firearm was deemed unserviceable and a replacement unit recommended.
North Sylva did send me a different rifle, (thanks North Sylva!)

However the replacement rifle also has a MIM bolt in it. The good news is my spare forged bolt fits this rifle unlike the one I sent in. So once I get headspace checked it should be good

One thing that concerns me and that is the main reason for this post is that on the inspection ticket from NS it says
In regards of bolt quality, it is recommended that customer contact the manufacturer and raise his concerns on this regard

So is this a way for importers like NS to wash their hands of any future issues with these m305 rifles?
The bigger question is how are we supposed to contact the Chinese factory making these things and voice our concerns about the bolts?
 
Don't sweat it, that is their way of saying:

"Please F-off. We paid the PRC in cash for these and have no recourse but to sell the rifles and make it your problem".

Just think of these as nice receivers to build on with a dummy bolt installed.
 
FLHTCUI said:
Why are you using an aftermarket bolt on a brand new gun with warranty for warranty claim?
I change parts on my car and the warranty becom3s null and void.
Maybe I’m missing a point or three.
Rob
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Because mim bolts are blowing up in people's faces around the 200 Rds mark? Seems like a good reason to change it out to me.
 
Claven2 said:
Don't sweat it, that is their way of saying:

"Please F-off. We paid the PRC in cash for these and have no recourse but to sell the rifles and make it your problem".

Just think of these as nice receivers to build on with a dummy bolt installed.
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Ya that's about it, bend over!! Lol
oh well at least I should be able to do something with the replacement rifle as my forged bolt will fit this one so should be able to make a safe shooter at least
 
Deathrawt said:
I got my rifle back from North Sylva today and according to the inspection ticket the headspace was confirmed to be bad and the firearm was deemed unserviceable and a replacement unit recommended.
North Sylva did send me a different rifle, (thanks North Sylva!)

However the replacement rifle also has a MIM bolt in it. The good news is my spare forged bolt fits this rifle unlike the one I sent in. So once I get headspace checked it should be good

One thing that concerns me and that is the main reason for this post is that on the inspection ticket from NS it says
In regards of bolt quality, it is recommended that customer contact the manufacturer and raise his concerns on this regard

So is this a way for importers like NS to wash their hands of any future issues with these m305 rifles?
The bigger question is how are we supposed to contact the Chinese factory making these things and voice our concerns about the bolts?
Click to expand...

I am glad this worked out for you, at least as well as it did. At the end of the day, you are going to have a serviceable rifle. I do kinda feel for the uninformed buyer/shooter who hasn't been following the history of these rifles and the MIM bolts etc. I guess CGN is well worth the time to hang around in and learn this stuff.

And really, any importer who brings these rifles into the country should have set up a warranty protocol as part of the sales agreement with the manufacturer, so the guys who make them are responsible, and not the retailer.
 
FLHTCUI said:
And guys are still buying defective firearms that blow up in their face.
Instills confidence going to the range and having a black rifle guy set up beside me.
Right.
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Don't worry, it's just the new build Norinco M14/M305 rifles that are having bolt issues, not every black rifle is dangerous.
Typical North Sylva, I'm actually surprised that they replaced the rifle. Norinco doesn't exactly carry a warranty unless the retailer or imported decides to provide one.
Still safer than buying an NEA/BCL though, guys continue to buy the 102 as fast as they can make them even after all the reports of problems with them :p
 
cr5 said:
Don't worry, it's just the new build Norinco M14/M305 rifles that are having bolt issues, not every black rifle is dangerous.
Typical North Sylva, I'm actually surprised that they replaced the rifle. Norinco doesn't exactly carry a warranty unless the retailer or imported decides to provide one.
Still safer than buying an NEA/BCL though, guys continue to buy the 102 as fast as they can make them even after all the reports of problems with them :p
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Exactly my thoughts BCL 102 "mania" lol, but it's good for BCL since they can't produce enough despite the progressive deterioration in quality, been on that wagon and got
sick of feeding that bottomless money pit lol. Then finally got rid of it and purchased RA XCR-M with heavy barrel and it was love on first shot lol, butter smooth shooter,
will make all non-believers smile once they try it, ergonomics off this planet, made for either Russian or alien invasion but will do very well in case of North Korean invasion as well lol.
 
anton520b said:
Exactly my thoughts BCL 102 "mania" lol, but it's good for BCL since they can't produce enough despite the progressive deterioration in quality, been on that wagon and got
sick of feeding that bottomless money pit lol. Then finally got rid of it and purchased RA XCR-M with heavy barrel and it was love on first shot lol, butter smooth shooter,
will make all non-believers smile once they try it, ergonomics off this planet, made for either Russian or alien invasion but will do very well in case of North Korean invasion as well lol.
Click to expand...

After a bit of research, I just bought an XCR-M myself, and am also tickled with it. It's been great. But, Rob Arms has had years, and years, to develop multiple iterations of parts and improve their rifle. Which they seem to have done, if some of the early reviews are at all indicative of early quality. My rifle has all the latest iteration parts, including the new extractor spring combo and the "accurized" gas tube barrel setup. I've only got about 300 rds down range with it, and have only had one FTE, but that was while I was adjusting the gas setting after the break-in, purposefully pushing it as low as possible. So, its still very early, but as mentioned, I've been very happy with it.

Hopefully, BCL will also continue to develop and improve their design, re-investing in their IP and customers. And if they do, then their is an excellent chance in 3-5 years I may have a 102 in my safe, right beside my XCR.
 
The importers of the Chinese m14 rifles should do what the American
Importers did, supply proper US bolts and have them fitted by the
manufacturer. Then reflect it in the price. It worked for the Americans
 
can14 said:
The importers of the Chinese m14 rifles should do what the American
Importers did, supply proper US bolts and have them fitted by the
manufacturer. Then reflect it in the price. It worked for the Americans
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You'd think the market itself would deal with this by drying up. I certainly would not buy a new Chicom rifle if it had a MIM bolt, or a cast receiver for that matter. At least not at the current prices. I bought a Norc shorty @ $450 with a forged bolt and decent forged receiver. It was a great deal in my view. Now, not so much. It would be interesting to know if any of the MIM bolts have lasted very long at all.
 
Every forged chinese M14 I've bought was stripped for the receiver, the parts sold off as a kit, and a nice rifle built with us made components.

To be frank, I don't even look at what bolt it has, I never use them ;)
 
can14 said:
The importers of the Chinese m14 rifles should do what the American
Importers did, supply proper US bolts and have them fitted by the
manufacturer. Then reflect it in the price. It worked for the Americans
Click to expand...

When did that occur? I think most Polytech m14S rifles sold in the USA had chinese bolts fitted??
 
Claven2 said:
Every forged chinese M14 I've bought was stripped for the receiver, the parts sold off as a kit, and a nice rifle built with us made components.

To be frank, I don't even look at what bolt it has, I never use them ;)
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The best price I’ve seen for a new M305 is $630.00 Not sure that’s good value for a Chicom receiver. I saw a WTB on EE for one with a note saying he did not expect to pay much over $50 LOL.
 
Tom Morrison said:
The best price I’ve seen for a new M305 is $630.00 Not sure that’s good value for a Chicom receiver. I saw a WTB on EE for one with a note saying he did not expect to pay much over $50 LOL.
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I'll buy every forged M305 receiver for $50 that anyone offers me, and I expect that WTB ad did not result in a $50 forged receiver.

I buy the rifles used on the EE usually in the $500-550 range. When I sell off all the chinese parts and stock I recoup around $200-250. So really I'm paying around $300 for a forged M14 receiver. I think that's pretty good.

The cheapest decent m14 receiver after that is a Fulton Armory receiver from @#### for $680 USD.

realistically, some of the chinese parts are fine and could be used if someone anted a nice build on a budget. The gas systems work well enough, they are just aesthetically inferior to the real thing, are a bit oversized compared to GI parts, are not stainless steel, so can rust, and the pistons are chromed carbon steel and not as well made as a stainless USGI piston. For a typical shooter, those difference won't matter.

If you get a good barrel, they are OK for many people. The last M305 I bought, a 2013 receiver, had an improperly reamed chamber with galling under the chrome lining. It would not extract fired shells, which was fine by me. I got a good price and didn't want the barrel anyway.

The chinese rear sights are iffy. some are OK, others are junk with lots of movement. The front sights and clash hiders are pretty crudely cast compared to US made parts. I usually recommend they be replaced, as using the chicom flash suppressor as your datum for barrel indexing often results in timing issues between the oprod and gas cylinder. the FS's are often not cast square to the barrel splines.

The trigger housings are usually pretty good, but they are almost always made better by installing GI hammer, trigger and pins.

I do like the chinese op rods and would use one on a nice build if I didn't have a USGI op rod on hand. I like the chinese ones even better after I machine them to have the same shoulder angles as the USGI rods.
 
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Tom Morrison said:
You'd think the market itself would deal with this by drying up. I certainly would not buy a new Chicom rifle if it had a MIM bolt, or a cast receiver for that matter. At least not at the current prices. I bought a Norc shorty @ $450 with a forged bolt and decent forged receiver. It was a great deal in my view. Now, not so much. It would be interesting to know if any of the MIM bolts have lasted very long at all.
Click to expand...

Yeah. I have been interested in the m305 for a while. Hopefully they'll fix these issues in the future, otherwise I'll likely never buy one.
 
Claven2 said:
I'll buy every forged M305 receiver for $50 that anyone offers me, and I expect that WTB ad did not result in a $50 forged receiver.

I buy the rifles used on the EE usually in the $500-550 range. When I sell off all the chinese parts and stock I recoup around $200-250. So really I'm paying around $300 for a forged M14 receiver. I think that's pretty good.

The cheapest decent m14 receiver after that is a Fulton Armory receiver from @#### for $680 USD.

realistically, some of the chinese parts are fine and could be used if someone anted a nice build on a budget. The gas systems work well enough, they are just aesthetically inferior to the real thing, are a bit oversized compared to GI parts, are not stainless steel, so can rust, and the pistons are chromed carbon steel and not as well made as a stainless USGI piston. For a typical shooter, those difference won't matter.

If you get a good barrel, they are OK for many people. The last M305 I bought, a 2013 receiver, had an improperly reamed chamber with galling under the chrome lining. It would not extract fired shells, which was fine by me. I got a good price and didn't want the barrel anyway.

The chinese rear sights are iffy. some are OK, others are junk with lots of movement. The front sights and clash hiders are pretty crudely cast compared to US made parts. I usually recommend they be replaced, as using the chicom flash suppressor as your datum for barrel indexing often results in timing issues between the oprod and gas cylinder. the FS's are often not cast square to the barrel splines.

The trigger housings are usually pretty good, but they are almost always made better by installing GI hammer, trigger and pins.

I do like the chinese op rods and would use one on a nice build if I didn't have a USGI op rod on hand. I like the chinese ones even better after I machine them to have the same shoulder angles as the USGI rods.
Click to expand...

I certainly would not part with a good Norc forged receiver for $50.00, but rumour has it that the newer guns are cast. Not sure if that’s the case, but it does potentially devalue the current crop considerably. A forged Chicom bolt does have resale value because of the MIM bolt issues. A shortie Chicom barrel also has some resale value as folks like short barrels. Point is that the value of Chicom guns has dropped significantly.
 
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