Question about reloading for .38 S&W

fire@will

fire@will

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Hey guys - need some advice, please.
A friend has asked me to make him some ammo for his recently aquired revolver. It belonged to his grandfather and he would like to shoot it. My understanding is, that the .38 S&W round is .360-361 dia. I haven't had any luck finding this bullet in a plated version. Would it be really dumb to load these with a .38 SPL bullet ? I understand that the accuracy may suffer a bit, but other than that - what other issue(s) should I be worried about ? Thanks for reading.
 
I have fooled with the 9mm Browning long, similar issues. IMO a proper sized bullet is best. A hollow base wad cutter has the ability to fill the bore, I'd use Trail Boss powder if that is the way you will go. If you go that route, just trim some 38 Spl brass to length. If you have trouble using 38 Spl dies, use a set of 9mm Luger ones. LEE makes 38 S&W dies, I use them for 9mm Browning Long. Remember, none of these suggestions are really right, just a way to get by with what you have on hand or can get easily. What manuals do you have?

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I'll quote here;
"Despite the fact that the 38 S&W really isn’t very good for any specific purpose, it has hung around since the 1870s. Generally chambered for small, inadequate, short barreled “pocket revolvers”
that range in quality from excellent to, “Why don’t you shoot it first,” 38 S&W was the largest cartridge that would work out of a snub nose, top break revolver — millions of which were churned out by firms like Harrington & Richardson and Iver Johnson in the late 1800s and early 1900s. 38 S&W will not chamber properly in 38 Special revolvers.
These guns were essentially the “junk guns” of their day but are often surprisingly accurate, durable and reliable. Accurate, durable and reliable as long as they are used within the limits of their relatively weak design and construction. Keep the loads moderate for safety and remember that like a Colt Single Action most of these old top breaks are unsafe to carry with a round under the hammer. They should be loaded and carried with an empty chamber under the hammer.
Cowboy shooters have sort of rediscovered this caliber for use in their pocket pistol matches. Ranges are seldom over five yards and toy balloons or clay pigeons are often used as targets, so no great power is needed or even wanted. Any load that reliably leaves the barrel probably has sufficient velocity for this application. What more can you expect from a gun they stopped making when Truman was president and cost the original purchaser less than what a Happy Meal costs today? Bore diameters vary quite a bit in this cartridge. European guns generally have larger bores. Oregon Trail bullets can be ordered as large as .358" in diameter. Check the section on bullet fit in Chapter 1 for determining which bullet diameter is best for your gun. Although moderate, these loads are intended for modern smokeless guns in good mechanical condition. If you have any question about the condition, safety, suitability or age of your revolver, then please have a qualified gunsmith check it for safety before firing. A roll crimp is preferred.
— Gary Morgan"

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I use wheel weights and size 0.359 for my Enfield and Webley 38's. They work well. Try 38 special bullets and see how they work.
I also have 0.360 hollow base which shoot the same as my solid base 0.359's. Both 160 grs. They are fun guns to shoot. The bores in both of mine are excellent. I haven't slugged them but they shoot well without the bullets I feed them. 38 special bullets from 133 gr to 200 grs. The 200 shoots to point of aim,lighter ones are low.
 
You could try powder-coating? It should give you a few thou extra, plus, it will save you the hassle of lubing. Another option might be paper patching, but that would rapidly get to be a PITA if you do any large amount of shooting.
 
That's great, gentlemen. Thank you very much for your help. I can get the brass from one of the suppliers on here and I have an older RCBS 3 die set for this cartridge - the bullets were my stumbling block. I shall try your suggestions.
 
Not a good idea to use 38 special brass its not the same dimensions as 38 s&w. 38 special brass is smaller and will most likely split on first firing . brass is out there seen a bunch at my local gunshows lately. I have tried reloading for my enfield tanker but havet had much luck yet. it got put on the back burner to many other things on the go.
 
It's pretty much a dead end. Trimming 38spl brass to create 38S&W suitable brass will see that brass bulge monstrously.
38 S&W needs .360-.361 diameter bullets so traditional .358 diameter bullets are worthless. Unless you just want to hear "Bang!"

38 spl 148 grain swagged wad cutter bullets might work but you need sufficient pressure to make the skirts expand in the bore. Plus, 148 grain swagged wad cutter bullets are now worth 12-15 cents each. If you can find them. So trying to keep costs down presents a challenge.
Perhaps you can steer you friend towards a more reloading friendly cartridge....
 
Starline makes brass, and for proper sized bullets you can get them from jet bullets, in my s&w victory. .358 bullets work fine
 
I used to use the soft lead 148 hollowbase wad cutter. Worked well.

Then I got some 160 gr SWC sized correctly. Even better.

Is the revolver a S&W or a Wenfield? A S&W might have a 357 barrel.

If you want to start laodign and shootoing right away, use the 9mm case. Same size as a 38S&W. Don't use 9mm load data!
 
Ganderite said:
I used to use the soft lead 148 hollowbase wad cutter. Worked well.

Then I got some 160 gr SWC sized correctly. Even better.

Is the revolver a S&W or a Wenfield? A S&W might have a 357 barrel.

If you want to start laodign and shootoing right away, use the 9mm case. Same size as a 38S&W. Don't use 9mm load data!
Click to expand...
Never even considered 9mm brass would work may try just for fun, after reading this i tried a sized 9mm case in my s&w victory and my firing pin would reach, would have to bring a extraction tool to the range tho
 
Ganderite said:
I used to use the soft lead 148 hollowbase wad cutter. Worked well.

Then I got some 160 gr SWC sized correctly. Even better.

Is the revolver a S&W or a Wenfield? A S&W might have a 357 barrel.

If you want to start laodign and shootoing right away, use the 9mm case. Same size as a 38S&W. Don't use 9mm load data!
Click to expand...
Ganderite said:
I used to use the soft lead 148 hollowbase wad cutter. Worked well.

Then I got some 160 gr SWC sized correctly. Even better.

Is the revolver a S&W or a Wenfield? A S&W might have a 357 barrel.

If you want to start laodign and shootoing right away, use the 9mm case. Same size as a 38S&W. Don't use 9mm load data!
Click to expand...

Not sure what this piece is - could be a Webley, or an Enfield, or a S&W - or something else. The owner is a friend of my daughter, who knows I reload and asked her if I had any .38 S&W - she said "of course he does" - (she thinks her dad has every cartridge made). I've been "conversing" with him, through her. The make hasn't come up yet. I don't believe that this piece will become a regular "shooter" - it's his granddad's gun and I think he wants to try it out, as well as have some rounds to keep with it - you know - so it's not just a paper weight. Interesting about the 9mm - so, I guess the cartridge seats on the case mouth ? - - - - I just went and tried this with some 9mm's, in an old S&W military revolver I have. The cartridges chamber nicely, but they sit flush with the cylinder - it doesn't look like the firing pin will hit the primer. I did try pushing the bullet into the muzzle end and they only go in as far as the end of the ogive - so it looks like there is enough bullet for the rifling to get a hold of - and the .38 SPL is .001 larger. I think I'll get ahold of some .38 S&W brass and make up a handful with 2 grains of 231 - - - what could go wrong, huh ! ? !
Another observation, as regards the cases splitting - a couple of weeks ago, a friend was shooting my 92 (Brigadier) in .40 S&W and somehow managed to put a couple of 9mm cartridges into the mag. They fed, chambered and fired - wouldn't eject - surprise, surprise. I have no idea how they managed to sit in the chamber, secure enough for the firing pin to whack the primer, but they did - twice. If you take a 9mm cartridge, it will simply fall through the barrel. He told me that the gun wasn't ejecting, so I checked it out and discovered what he had done. My biggest surprize was that the cases didn't split - they just swelled up to a .40 size case. Live and learn. Thanks again for your input, fella's - I really appreciate it.
 
38 special brass bulges badly but works in some 38S&W revolvers - and in other revolvers it splits and makes a mess. Depends on the chamber dimensions and wear, and your load, and the strength of the brass used. Personally I wouldn't screw with 38spl brass with 38S&W brass being readily available.
 
fire@will said:
Not sure what this piece is - could be a Webley, or an Enfield, or a S&W - or something else. The owner is a friend of my daughter, who knows I reload and asked her if I had any .38 S&W - she said "of course he does" - (she thinks her dad has every cartridge made). I've been "conversing" with him, through her. The make hasn't come up yet. I don't believe that this piece will become a regular "shooter" - it's his granddad's gun and I think he wants to try it out, as well as have some rounds to keep with it - you know - so it's not just a paper weight. Interesting about the 9mm - so, I guess the cartridge seats on the case mouth ? - - - - I just went and tried this with some 9mm's, in an old S&W military revolver I have. The cartridges chamber nicely, but they sit flush with the cylinder - it doesn't look like the firing pin will hit the primer. I did try pushing the bullet into the muzzle end and they only go in as far as the end of the ogive - so it looks like there is enough bullet for the rifling to get a hold of - and the .38 SPL is .001 larger. I think I'll get ahold of some .38 S&W brass and make up a handful with 2 grains of 231 - - - what could go wrong, huh ! ? !
Another observation, as regards the cases splitting - a couple of weeks ago, a friend was shooting my 92 (Brigadier) in .40 S&W and somehow managed to put a couple of 9mm cartridges into the mag. They fed, chambered and fired - wouldn't eject - surprise, surprise. I have no idea how they managed to sit in the chamber, secure enough for the firing pin to whack the primer, but they did - twice. If you take a 9mm cartridge, it will simply fall through the barrel. He told me that the gun wasn't ejecting, so I checked it out and discovered what he had done. My biggest surprize was that the cases didn't split - they just swelled up to a .40 size case. Live and learn. Thanks again for your input, fella's - I really appreciate it.
Click to expand...

I would want to confirm the make of the pistol before proceeding with that load. Some of the top breaking 38 S&Ws are very weak. In addition to a particular model, his particular pistol may or may not be in good shape. Not a bad idea to have it inspected by a gun smith or other knowledgeable person to confirm its got a good action with a tight lock up.

Cast lead bullets will be far easier to find in the correct diameter than plated bullets, and for the amount of rounds this gun will fire, I doubt the plated bullets would enhance the experience much any ways.

I made up a load for a 1907 era S&W revolver. Gun is in excellent shape with a good frame and tight lock up. 3"ish barrel. Fired an 8" group at 15 yards without any considerable load development. Starline Brass and cast bullets from Rusty woods, 1.7 gr of tight group. Easy peasy. Probably could have gone a bit hotter but why bother. Its just to make ammo that works, not going to compete with it. YMMV.
 
Kmck said:
Never even considered 9mm brass would work may try just for fun, after reading this i tried a sized 9mm case in my s&w victory and my firing pin would reach, would have to bring a extraction tool to the range tho
Click to expand...

A pencil will pop the empty 9mm cases out by pushing through from the front.

Some 38 S&W revolvers have a cylinder bored straight through. Most have a lip inside that will hold the 9mm case in place. I have used 9mm cases in a number of different 38 S&Ws and all shot reliably. Then one day someone on EE sold 500 empty 38 S&W cases and I now have a lifetime supply.

9mm in 38S&W (1).jpg
 

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fire@will said:
Not sure what this piece is - could be a Webley, or an Enfield, or a S&W - or something else. The owner is a friend of my daughter, who knows I reload and asked her if I had any .38 S&W - she said "of course he does" - (she thinks her dad has every cartridge made). I've been "conversing" with him, through her. The make hasn't come up yet. I don't believe that this piece will become a regular "shooter" - it's his granddad's gun and I think he wants to try it out, as well as have some rounds to keep with it - you know - so it's not just a paper weight. Interesting about the 9mm - so, I guess the cartridge seats on the case mouth ? - - - - I just went and tried this with some 9mm's, in an old S&W military revolver I have. The cartridges chamber nicely, but they sit flush with the cylinder - it doesn't look like the firing pin will hit the primer. I did try pushing the bullet into the muzzle end and they only go in as far as the end of the ogive - so it looks like there is enough bullet for the rifling to get a hold of - and the .38 SPL is .001 larger. I think I'll get ahold of some .38 S&W brass and make up a handful with 2 grains of 231 - - - what could go wrong, huh ! ? !
Click to expand...

Chamber some 9mm primed cases and pull the trigger. Let us know if they go bang.
 
Ganderite said:
A pencil will pop the empty 9mm cases out by pushing through from the front.

Some 38 S&W revolvers have a cylinder bored straight through. Most have a lip inside that will hold the 9mm case in place. I have used 9mm cases in a number of different 38 S&Ws and all shot reliably. Then one day someone on EE sold 500 empty 38 S&W cases and I now have a lifetime supply.

View attachment 178075
Click to expand...

Definatly going to give it a try juat to see have lots of 38s&w brass, but have tons of 9mm and dont shoot much 9mm so i can put it to better use
 
Ganderite said:
Chamber some 9mm primed cases and pull the trigger. Let us know if they go bang.
Click to expand...

Ya' - guess I could - or if I'm really sure the firing pin won't reach, I could just drop in a live round.
All of the rounds I chambered, sit like the round at 9 o'clock in your photo. You figure that your firing pin will set that one off ? I guess if yours would, mine would.

Anyhow, Gents - it looks like like my question and all your excellent input, is not going any further. The young man has an army buddy, who's going to fix him up with some older "factory" .38 S&W.

Thanks again - 'preciate it.
 
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