.338 Federal vs. .358 Win

gwes2003 said:
Why is that?
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I had two Federals and neither was a very good shooter, even after tinkering a fair amount on the rifles and loads... at the same time I had several .35's in Rem, Win, Whelen and RM, that were very good shooters... so I just decided to scrap the .338's all together, as I had already sold off my .338 WM and concentrate on the .35's, which I had a plethora of supplies for... that was just a subjective choice... as I said in the first post, "take your pick..." what one will do, so will the other.
 
The 338 should have better BCs and sectional density, whereas the 35s have a larger diameter (assuming same bullet weights used). Because both are moderate velocity cartridges best suited for shorter ranges, the BC differences shouldn't really matter, and the difference in sectional density and diameter are small enough that you'd be hard pressed to notice a difference.

As hoyt said, it's really a subjective thing, what one will do, so will the other.
 
I think the federal will carry its velocity a little bit better, and would tend to being easier to shoot at distance, as it won't start to drop as abruptly as the .358

In contrast I'd say the federal is a bit more of an "all-rounder" where as the 358 excels better at "close shot thick brush and hard hitting" type caliber.

All of this is subjective, and the choice of projectile can change things a lot, and easily argued. But if I did a bit more open country deer hunting (ranges up to 250-300 yards) I would take the federal over the 358. If you have a different rig for open country or mountain hunting, and want more knock down for dropping deer or black bear on the spot during thick bush trail walks, I would take the 358.

I don't really need either of these, but if I was shopping for one I'd pick up that SS takedown BLR in the EE, they don't come up often.
 
I think you would have to kill hundreds of animals a year to really see an noticeable difference. I'd buy whichever I found in a rifle that appealed to me. Of course a .308 Winchester would probably march the same ground with 180's or 200's and you'd hardly notice.
I hate to admit it especially since I just bought a .35 Whelen but there is a reason why the .30 cals rule the roost for NA big game. .308 bullets of between 130-200 grains started from 2400-3000fps will get it done.
 
cody c said:
I think the federal will carry its velocity a little bit better, and would tend to being easier to shoot at distance, as it won't start to drop as abruptly as the .358

In contrast I'd say the federal is a bit more of an "all-rounder" where as the 358 excels better at "close shot thick brush and hard hitting" type caliber...
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A 338fed shoots a 200gr fusion bullet at 2700fps, has 2099fps @300 and drops 8.8" at 300 if zeroed @200.

Meanwhile, 358win shooting a 200gr tsx @2675 (double tap ammo) has 2018fps and drops 8.9" at 300.

I know they're not the same bullet and so it's not a prefect comparison, but you get the point. They're so similar it would be very hard to tell the difference in a hunting situation.
 
Jim870 said:
I think you would have to kill hundreds of animals a year to really see an noticeable difference. I'd buy whichever I found in a rifle that appealed to me. Of course a .308 Winchester would probably march the same ground with 180's or 200's and you'd hardly notice.
I hate to admit it especially since I just bought a .35 Whelen but there is a reason why the .30 cals rule the roost for NA big game. .308 bullets of between 130-200 grains started from 2400-3000fps will get it done.
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The reason the 30 cal rules is military adoption. A 7mm will do everything a 30cal will with less recoil and better trajectory, but the army never adopted that (although they were going to, the garand was supposed to be a 7mm originally)

The 300wm is the ultimate ass hole caliber, at least everyone I know who shoots one as their primary hunting rifle is a bag of dicks... Im gonna have to add NO 300WM to the camp rules pretty quick at this rate. (Which would be something, as there are no camp rules lol)

People who use a 300wm along with other rifles are ok though. Nothing wrong with a 300, but it's not the greatest thing since sliced bread...
 
Suther said:
A 338fed shoots a 200gr fusion bullet at 2700fps, has 2099fps @300 and drops 8.8" at 300 if zeroed @200.

Meanwhile, 358win shooting a 200gr tsx @2675 (double tap ammo) has 2018fps and drops 8.9" at 300.

I know they're not the same bullet and so it's not a prefect comparison, but you get the point. They're so similar it would be very hard to tell the difference in a hunting situation.
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I am wrong about something here, and you kind of called me on it which is good, so I'll revise a bit. I would think with the 358 one would want heavier (250 ish grain) ammo, but they more often come in the 200ish size in factory, which is similar to what the 338 often comes in, in factory.

I guess my point is/was, the difference of drop at a 50 yard miscalculation with typical 358 ammo vs 338 fed moves POI out of ethical kill area

Also you used a 200 yard zero, for something like the 358 I would go for a 100 yard, to continue:

358 win factory 200 @ 100 zero, 250= -12.4 300= -21.8 350= -34.5
338 fed 180 accubond @100 zero, 250= -7.8 300= -13.7 350= -21.5"

Numbers from the isnipe app, but a 50 yard miscalc at 300 yards puts you out around:

+8 to -14" with the 358 win, vs
+6 to -8" with the 338 fed.

Now all of this can be thrown out with different loads and reloading and POI for zero, but I would say the federal has an edge with longer shots for an ethical shot than the 358.

I'm not far off from splitting hairs here, but I think it should be taken into consideration, and I would maintain my stance that the federal is a bit better of an all-rounder.

If I had only one hunting rifle to use from the two I would take the federal. I have many, so I would want the 358 if I was to purchase one now.


Also, your argument about the 300WM being a "not the greatest caliber" I gotta say your both right and wrong about that. My younger brother has done very well with a hot loaded 200 grain Accubond 300WM A-bolt. I argue it with him sometimes, but he's made shots out to 600+ yards on elk, and 30 yards on deer. It isn't a mild recoiling rifle, too much for short range deer but I can't argue how effective he has been with it in the last decade. I like my 9.3x62, and am building (having someone build) a 6.5 for mountain hunting or mid range deer, but he's got a serious arguement for an all round caliber based on his results.
 
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be hard to tell the difference between the 2, both are at there best @ 250 yards and under. the 358 win will push a 225gr to better than 2500, and I think that is the best choice in the 358 for large game.
 
interesting comment, Cody, as that seems to be a mentality the cartridge has suffered being it was first chambered in a lever action, which is not a long range platform.

with modern loads, the .358 Win ballistics are quite parallel to several others that don't have that 'close range' bias levied against them.
 
Mr. Friendly said:
interesting comment, Cody, as that seems to be a mentality the cartridge has suffered being it was first chambered in a lever action, which is not a long range platform.

with modern loads, the .358 Win ballistics are quite parallel to several others that don't have that 'close range' bias levied against them.
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Yeah. Who builds or buys a 400-600ish yard rifle in .358 win? Sure it could work, but, lots of better options for projectiles with better BC's and retaining energy/speed.

An 18" barreled (or shorter) take-down SS BLR or other lever in a small take down leather scabbard or satchel for camping or bush trips with some 250 grain reloads is how I see it to shine. Just my ideologies there though. I have a savage 99 in 308 that I'd really like to get rebored/chambered but thats a lot of money for small gains.
 
I would also use a 100yd zero for such a rifle, but I was simply making a point. If you wanted to use either caliber out to 300 they behave almost identically and most people can't (or shouldn't, looking at the aforementioned 300wm guys) shoot farther than that anyways.

Also, comparing a 180gr accubond to a 200gr run of the mill soft point in the 358 isn't exactly a fair comparison, and it's light for caliber like the 200gr 358 pill you're so not so fond of.

The 300wm is a fine cartridge, but a 3006 is just as capable within 300+ yds and a bigger magnum like the 300 Weatherby or rum would be better at longer ranges. The only real advantage it has is commonality, as both the rifles and ammo/components for the others are more expensive and everywhere sells 300wm (which to be fair is an important factor to many). Nothing wrong with the caliber, I'm sure I'll end up with one at some point (or a comparable 30cal magnum) it's the fan boys that are the issue...

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I've owned a few 338F's, a Sako 85 (210 TSX @ 2600), Ruger 77 (185 TTSX @ 2750) and most recently a Tikka (200gr SST @ 2570). It's a little less fudd than a 35 cal but not by much
 
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