Choosing my First O/U - Beretta 686 Essential vs. Browning Belgium Superposed

Alon

Alon

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Which one would you say is the better choice for my first O/U shotgun: the Beretta 686 Essential 12ga, 28" barrel or the Browning Belgium Superposed 12ga, 28" barrel ? Both are used, great condition and for $800.
I am mainly going to use it to get into trap/skeet/clay shooting and for the occasional upland hunt.
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
I've had two silver pigeons and they've been brilliant for thousands of rounds. You could do worse than a SP though. Check the stock for cracks and the top lever position as well. Fit should trump everything with a shotgun IMO (assuming they're mechanically sound).
 
Depends what it's choked in. For me most sporting clays or skeet applications don't require a lot of choke pulling and from what the OP says he doesn't want a do all gun, just a clays gun capable of shooting the odd pheasant or chukar. For under a grand you're going to pretty limited for options and I think both would do pretty well (for the money). YMMV.
 
Trap requires different (tighter) chokes than skeet and grouse requires different chokes than pheasant. If you truly want to make one gun do all tasks well you will need a gun with interchangeable chokes which rules out the otherwise excellent Superposed, they were all fixed choke.
 
Ashcroft said:
Trap requires different (tighter) chokes than skeet and grouse requires different chokes than pheasant. If you truly want to make one gun do all tasks well you will need a gun with interchangeable chokes which rules out the otherwise excellent Superposed, they were all fixed choke.
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The Superposed has a modified choke on the bottom and full on the top barrel. From what I understand, the modified is for the first clay (or bird flying toward you) and full choke is for the second clay (or bird flying away from you).
Maybe that kind of fits the bill for a do - all, more or less?
I initially thought that people like to have their O/U with the same size chokes on both barrels.
 
Alon said:
The Superposed has a modified choke on the bottom and full on the top barrel. From what I understand, the modified is for the first clay (or bird flying toward you) and full choke is for the second clay (or bird flying away from you).
Maybe that kind of fits the bill for a do - all, more or less?
I initially thought that people like to have their O/U with the same size chokes on both barrels.
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You might want the ability to open up the chokes for skeet so the Beretta would be my choice but at $800, you can't lose with either.
 
The 686 should be a more versatile gun as should have the beretta mobil choke system as factory installed . This also makes the beretta steel shot friendly . If the berretta fits it would be my choise .
 
Go to you tube and look up Art Isaacson.
He is a wealth of knowledge.
While I have enjoyed looking at Superposed since I was 13 years old I have never owned one.
But, having stumbled upon Art and his business I know what to look for and what it will cost to repair it.
Not every gun will be an issue, but there may come a time and it might not bite you in the azz if you catch it before you buy it.
I spent several hours in the black hole of those videos, but I do consider him a knowledgeable gentleman.
Buy once cry once , be educated before you pull the trigger.
Rob
 
Modified and full barrels work great for trap shooting, including singles, handicap and doubles. This combination is too tight for most sporting clays presentations although it may be fine for a few courses. It is far too tight for skeet and hunting grouse, hungarians, quail and most early season pheasant over a dog. The quality on a well cared for Superposed can't be beat but there is the salt wood issue to be aware of and watch for heavily used guns, many of these have been shot nearly to death. Ruger makes great handling long lasting over/unders, no disadvantage here. For one gun to do all tasks a gun with removable chokes offers the most versatility but ultimately the one you will shoot the best is the one that naturally fits you best and Browning and Beretta fit much differently, if one fits you well the other will usually be not quite right. If you end up with a fixed choke gun the best compromise might be to have the chokes opened to IC bottom and Mod top, this will work quite well for all purposes, not perfect for extremely short or long shots but much better than Mod and Full. Cost should be about $75 per hole and it should be done on a lathe by a pro or it might not shoot to point of aim in one or both barrels.
 
Back to "the one that fits the best". Guaranteed you will break more targets with the "wrong" choke and a good fit vs the right choke and a bad fit. If both fit well then go for the one that has changeable chokes as what you want to do with the gun will need the extremes in choke.
 
Try several firearms. A good buddy of mine has a 12ga Citori Browning with the grip style stock. Its simply fantastic, such a classic firearm. Though I am Jealous and have been watching the boards and used market I just have not seen one in the 800's range that I felt comfortable buying. After several year looking around I decided that I would buy a O/U within my budget which was about $1000.

I ended up buying a Churchill Akkar Orcap II which so far about 400 rounds in has held up quite well as a shotgun. Came with interchangeable chokes (Remington thread i think) C,IC,M,IM,F. The finish is beautiful with a nice golden trigger. It was a bit tight when first picked up but with use became more manageable. Still have to work the break action "like a man"but initially it was a fiend. Finish-wise it was superior to the CZ budget OU and visually not much different than the $1700 is CZ O/U so i threw my hat in the ring on a Turkish gun. I am quite happy with it, its worked out in the rain and with just a light towel off showed no signs of rust etc...
 
The priority is fit, and then consider the suitabity for shooting clays. The ability to change chokes for the various clays games is an advantage, that should be considered. I would be looking for a quality used "B" gun that fits, and that has interchangeable chokes. If you decide after a while that you don't like it, you will still get most of your money back. If you purchase a cheap Turkish made O/U, and you don't like it, resale value is poor. A few people have showed up at our range with Turkish guns that they had to fight just to open, why bother with that, only to have a gun that will be sloppy in 10-20k rounds?
 
You all make excellent, valid points that I will definitely take into account. I guess that buying one used from a different province would not be ideal since the way it fits, points and swings are the most important aspects.
For those of you who have handled the 686 Essential, 28"; I am 5'9 with average length arms, would the 14.5" LOP be a little too big for me? Or is the only true way to find the right fit is to try it in person? The 686E is selling from Edmonton and I am in Ontario but really don't want to pass up on that deal.
Thank you all very much, I truly appreciate your help.
Al
 
I'll echo the others in saying that fit is critical to shooting well. The next most important feature is interchangeable choke tubes, especially if your a one gun owner. Full and mod fixed tubes will work well for trap and trap doubles as well as hunting but will put you at a disadvantage for sporting clay's and skeet.
If you decide to go the Superposed route then make sure it isn't a salt wood gun.
 
Alon said:
You all make excellent, valid points that I will definitely take into account. I guess that buying one used from a different province would not be ideal since the way it fits, points and swings are the most important aspects.
For those of you who have handled the 686 Essential, 28"; I am 5'9 with average length arms, would the 14.5" LOP be a little too big for me? Or is the only true way to find the right fit is to try it in person? The 686E is selling from Edmonton and I am in Ontario but really don't want to pass up on that deal.
Thank you all very much, I truly appreciate your help.
Al
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If the stock is too long then that is easily fixed with a saw. Having said that you can't make them longer without compromising the look with spacers so it's important to make sure the gun hasn't been shortened when buying sight unseen.
 
There are ways to work and tweak most parts of shotgun fit. Easiest thing to do is have it fit you when you buy it, if possible. Adjustable butt plates and grind to fit pads can fix a lot of issues. Even adjustable combs can be fitted. If you like the gun and can justify the expense and effort? You will be able to make the gun shoot for you. It may not look as pretty but it will function.
 
Buy the Beretta. It isn't just LOP, but cast and drop at comb that are the stock fit parameters. Presumably you are a right handed shooter, as the Beretta should have a right handed cast.
A lot of folks, including myself, make a big deal about fit. However, as a recreational shooter, and someone new to the game, fit is not a paramount issue:

1) You don't know what "fit" actually is.
2) There are other aspects to learning to shoot on the wing that need to be honed, regardless of fit.

My first "sporting" shotgun was an 870 Express. It was cheap, got me into the game, and allowed me to become reasonably proficient at skeet and trap. I used the same gun for upland and waterfowl. I wasn't aware of "fit" at the time.
Fast forward a few decades, and I have numerous over and unders (B guns). I now know what fit it is, and to be frank, as long as the cast is correct, I shoot all of them equally well. If I shoot one gun for a protracted period of time, my familiarity with the gun will benefit my scores. If I switch to another gun, it may take me a half box of shells to get on track. Just for kicks, I tried my 870 recently - it has a neutral cast and shallow comb, and after a few shots I had adjusted. (However, the hockey puck recoil pad has its shortcomings!)
So, what is the point to all this? You cant go wrong with any of the B guns. The Beretta gives you do all flexibility (chokes, 2 3/4 or 3 in steel shells) you need, and gets you nicely in the game. If for whatever reason, you decide you don't like it in the future, you can probably sell it for more or equal to what you paid for. Just make sure that any O/U you buy is not "loose" from excessive shooting. As a minimum, the top lever should be resting right of the 6 oclock position.
 
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