Cup and cores

Ive seen 2 bears shot with 180 tsx bullets. In both cases it was sheer luck we found them. No exit. All petals broke off and a 30 cal shank was found against the offside hide. Both bears ran one into a swamp the other into 12' high regrowth that was like a jungle. The other bear ive seen shot with the barnes ttsx was a 20 yard shot into the shoulder quartering to and the bullet shank was pulled from the back leg. It lost all petals in the shoulder but it flattened the 180lb bear
I have no faith in tsx bullets in 30cal or smaller diameters. I havent tried them in bigger bores and dont plan on it.
I like a big chunk of jacketed lead to rearrange into a mushroom or ball and pass thru the animal or at least smash thru the front shoulders
 
Some might recall this study of recovered .30 caliber bullets, with the resulting penetration at various impact velocities. What it fails to tell us though is the comparable damage done to the target, and without that information, it would be pretty easy to make a poor choice based on this chart if we were to choose a bullet solely by the amount of deformation to the bullet or solely on the depth of penetration of the target.



If a game bullet acts like a varmint bullet once it gets inside the rib cage, the result is a very fast, clean kill. When the internal organs looking like they went through a blender, there can be no question of the bullet's effectiveness. A pal of mine, who was once a proponent of the 140 gr TTSX, has decided that nothing he has ever seen kills game (moose and caribou) quicker than the 168 gr Berger VLD Hunting bullet from his .280. I get the argument, but I'm resistant to it. If, with a classic broadside presentation, a bullet gets through the hide and ribs, then grenades, it seems to me its going to be a wounder if used on any other presentation where the bullet must overcome more resistance. I prefer to err on the side of penetration, since bone and tissue that isn't penetrated isn't damaged, and doesn't contribute to the desired affect of the shot. Experience dictates that I don't necessarily want a bullet that grenades at any point along its path, having observed, and have been turned off by, shallow wounding from high velocity bullet failures. Then again, perhaps a heavier, slower impacting bullet of the same design would provide the penetration required should a more demanding shot be attempted.
 
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Boomer said:
Some might recall this study of recovered .30 caliber bullets, with the resulting penetration at various impact velocities. What it fails to tell us though is the comparable damage done to the target, and without that information, it would be pretty easy to make a poor choice based on this chart if we were to choose a bullet solely by the amount of deformation to the bullet or solely on the depth of penetration of the target.



If a game bullet acts like a varmint bullet once it gets inside the rib cage, the result is a very fast, clean kill. When the internal organs looking like they went through a blender, there can be no question of the bullet's effectiveness. A pal of mine, who was once a proponent of the 140 gr TTSX, has decided that nothing he has ever seen kills game (moose and caribou) quicker than the 168 gr Berger VLD Hunting bullet from his .280. I get the argument, but I'm resistant to it. If, with a classic broadside presentation, a bullet gets through the hide and ribs, then grenades, it seems to me its going to be a wounder if used on any other presentation where the bullet must overcome more resistance. I prefer to err on the side of penetration, since bone and tissue that isn't penetrated isn't damaged, and doesn't contribute to the desired affect of the shot. Experience dictates that I don't necessarily want a bullet that grenades at any point along its path, having observed, and have been turned off by, shallow wounding from high velocity bullet failures. Then again, perhaps a heavier, slower impacting bullet of the same design would provide the penetration required should a more demanding shot be attempted.
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Exactly why i went to larger bores like 4570 and 458wm. I get expansion and penetration at basically any angle. Momentum is often overlooked.
The exception to my collection is my 2506. I use it for deer wolf and coyotes. The speed and energy it hits with has always 100% reliable and quick at taking the life from game. I did take my largest bear with a single 120gr winchester grey box positive expanding. Damage was exceptional. 7 broken ribs on the entry. I figure the bullet blew up in the fat underthe hide and carried that ball of terror thru the ribs and into the chest cavity.
 
A typical bear isn't much heavier than a big man, while big one compares to a nice whitetail or mulie buck and they aren't one bit harder to kill.. Oddly; that makes some want to reach for the bullets that could be pressed into service on a wayward rhinoceros.
 
I use interlocks in my 375. 270gr just over 2700. 150gr SST in my 30-06 @3000 explodes on small bear bones. I use GMX for hunting with it now.
 
Statler said:
You don't need to break bones with any bears unless you're breaking the skull in a charge. Those 240s are ridiculous.
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Waldorf said:
"The world according to Slarp..."

"Slamiforium - population - 1"
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I use Hornady interlocks Speer hot cores ( when I can find them) or Prvi for almost everything, I load the heavier weights for any given cartridge and have never recovered one, always pass through, animals drop on the spot or very close by. My main hunting choices are medium velocity offerings like257 Rob. .358 35 Whelen 9.3 x 74 etc.ect. My guaranteed moose bear killing combo is the Whelen with the 250 Hornady SP. In my opinion the super premium bullets are a waist of money and are not needed for anything on this continent. But I shoot a lot and dont want to spend more than needed on projectiles.
 
Boomer said:
Some might recall this study of recovered .30 caliber bullets, with the resulting penetration at various impact velocities. What it fails to tell us though is the comparable damage done to the target, and without that information, it would be pretty easy to make a poor choice based on this chart if we were to choose a bullet solely by the amount of deformation to the bullet or solely on the depth of penetration of the target.



If a game bullet acts like a varmint bullet once it gets inside the rib cage, the result is a very fast, clean kill. When the internal organs looking like they went through a blender, there can be no question of the bullet's effectiveness. A pal of mine, who was once a proponent of the 140 gr TTSX, has decided that nothing he has ever seen kills game (moose and caribou) quicker than the 168 gr Berger VLD Hunting bullet from his .280. I get the argument, but I'm resistant to it. If, with a classic broadside presentation, a bullet gets through the hide and ribs, then grenades, it seems to me its going to be a wounder if used on any other presentation where the bullet must overcome more resistance. I prefer to err on the side of penetration, since bone and tissue that isn't penetrated isn't damaged, and doesn't contribute to the desired affect of the shot. Experience dictates that I don't necessarily want a bullet that grenades at any point along its path, having observed, and have been turned off by, shallow wounding from high velocity bullet failures. Then again, perhaps a heavier, slower impacting bullet of the same design would provide the penetration required should a more demanding shot be attempted.
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Try as I might, I can't read that article. Do you have source so I can take another crack at it?
 
I use hornady interlocks for my 30-06 165gr btsp mostly because they are so accurate. I have shot several .7moa groups with this bullet and has taken moose black bear and deer with no issues. That being said I try not to and haven't yet hit a big shoulder bone where the monometals hold together much better. One deer was higher than me and quartered towards me so the bullet entered the bread basket and traveled along the spine coming to rest against the back hip. That bullet shed alot of weight as you can imagine but the deer was DRT.
 
Dogleg said:
Try as I might, I can't read that article. Do you have source so I can take another crack at it?
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I've looked online but haven't been able to find a link, the original text was from a 1998 Handloader Magazine issue #193, and is titled "The best hunting bullet" by Gary Sciuchetti.

In the meantime this is an interesting study of terminal ballistics even though the test medium is suspect IMHO. . . http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
 
I only use cup & cores fer plinkin' or pest whackin', and only when I get 'em real cheap or fer free. Hardcast or soft lead boolits are my No.1 choice for meat critters. (Depending on the cal of the rifle and intended critter of course.)
 
NVShooter said:
This is a sincere question...because I'm not a hunter, I have no experience in this area. When you go hunting, do you carry both rounds and load the one most appropriate for the task at hand? For example, "I've got a clear shot at the lungs so I'm going to put an SST in the chamber"...or "looks like I need to break some bone if I am going to harvest this animal so in goes the Woodliegh"?
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Nope. Choose a good bullet that will handle the worst case scenario and govern yourself accordingly. And don't shoot animals you intend to eat through the edible bits. Breaking shoulders is for cape buffalo, not moose.
 
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I think much of what premium bullets are about is marketing hype. Pretty hard for manufactures to get people excited about traditional sp bullets. They are extremely effective and always have been. I'm making my way back to traditional bullets. Everyone's mileage varies but I have yet to see some type of failure on game and really what does it matter to an animal whether bullet X shed some grains from its original weight.... its still very dead.
 
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