Winchester Model 12 Information Thread

the spank said:
I do believe back in the day one could order a model 12 with factory installed poly choke though I don’t know which gauges or in what years that was available or how to tell a factory install from a gunsmith or poly choke install? Typically they tend to reduce the value overall though. They sure are an ungodly view to look down a barrel upon from behind the reciever.
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Factory install has no choke restriction stamped on the barrel and factory increases the value others are hit and miss pending buyer. Yes I hate them also and you could also get cutts installed factory. There are a few factory installed model 12 skeet guns here with sweet wood on them also
If this is a truly 1918 gun I would say no to factory since the first poly were in 1920
Cheers
 
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Models 12 could be had from the factory with Cutts Compensators, Poly Chokes or Weaver Chokes. Weaver were the rarest. None increase value of the gun in their own right but the Winchester Custom Shop did install them solid and they shot to point of aim. I find some usefulness in the muzzle devices. I own and use Poly Chokes and a Remington 1100 with a Cutts. For me a model 12 with an adjustable choke is a plus as it will generally be cheaper and I don't mind them. Unfortunately most are installed to lengths of 28" or longer. I feel the barrel length including the device should be 26" or shorter. A factory model 12 12 gauge Skeet with a Cutts is a beauty of a gun. A vented Poly or Cutts will keep other shooters about 1/2 mile away when at your favourite duck shooting hole :wave:
Darryl
 
Which goes to show there's different tastes for different folks.
I have no desire for a choke device gobbed on the end of a classic model 12. Never.
 
madtrapper143 said:
Models 12 could be had from the factory with Cutts Compensators, Poly Chokes or Weaver Chokes. Weaver were the rarest. None increase value of the gun in their own right but the Winchester Custom Shop did install them solid and they shot to point of aim. I find some usefulness in the muzzle devices. I own and use Poly Chokes and a Remington 1100 with a Cutts. For me a model 12 with an adjustable choke is a plus as it will generally be cheaper and I don't mind them. Unfortunately most are installed to lengths of 28" or longer. I feel the barrel length including the device should be 26" or shorter. A factory model 12 12 gauge Skeet with a Cutts is a beauty of a gun. A vented Poly or Cutts will keep other shooters about 1/2 mile away when at your favourite duck shooting hole :wave:
Darryl
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And that is why they bring more dollars a factory installed one
Few smith installed ones were done right IMO Many had point of aim issues as you know
Cheers
 
3macs1 said:
Same here. Then again I have no desire to even have a model 12 in my hands even though I have some
Almost as bad as those A5 logs lol
Cheers
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When I was 16 I bought the A-5 of your dreams. A 1927 mfg plain barrel that had an Aimpoint and Herters choke installed! I took the Aimpoint off when I got it home and pitched it in the trash. Then I had a real lower Great Lakes bluebill gun!! :popCorn:
 
dilly said:
What’s the chamber length? 2 1/2” or 2 3/4”?
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I got the gun from a good friend and he gave me a box of 2 3/4 shells with it, all I can tell you, as I have never fired it and it has been sitting in my gun cabinet since I got it, not into shotguns other than my Cooey 410 that I bought 63 yrs ago and after having a Cooey 20 blow up in my face, bad firing pin that didn't retract. Haven't fired one since.
 
Johnny G1 said:
I got the gun from a good friend and he gave me a box of 2 3/4 shells with it, all I can tell you, as I have never fired it and it has been sitting in my gun cabinet since I got it, not into shotguns other than my Cooey 410 that I bought 63 yrs ago and after having a Cooey 20 blow up in my face, bad firing pin that didn't retract. Haven't fired one since.
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Sounds like a good friend that doesn't know his gun
Can check but off the top of my head I thought all prior to 1927 were 2 1/2
Also the conversion of a Model 12 to 2-3/4" involves more than just the chamber length, since the ejection port is usually not sufficiently cleared for the open crimp.
Feed and ejection parts may have need of alteration in conversions, also.
Then some say all 12ga were 2 3/4 but they were not from what I have seen on real early ones
Bottom line it has to be checked

Cheers
 
Johnny G1 said:
I got the gun from a good friend and he gave me a box of 2 3/4 shells with it, all I can tell you, as I have never fired it and it has been sitting in my gun cabinet since I got it, not into shotguns other than my Cooey 410 that I bought 63 yrs ago and after having a Cooey 20 blow up in my face, bad firing pin that didn't retract. Haven't fired one since.
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It’s probably a 2.5” chamber given its age. If there is no barrel stamp saying it’s 2.75, then assume it is short. Lots of people shot 2.75 shells through them. I don’t endorse it though. PM me if you are thinking of selling.
 
I grew up shooting Model 12 shotguns and have quite a collection of them. Mainly ribbed models, pre-wars , two-pin skeet and trap in solid, two-pin and three pin ribs. Also have a couple of pre-war 42's and very nice 61 to go along with them.

I've solved ejection problems with the early 20 and 16 by changing out the ejector spring. A longer spring will kick the empties out at a sharper angle and clear the ejection port. I learned this from my very first heavy duck gun that someone had replaced the ejector with a 2 3/4" one.

One of my favorite M12's, for upland birds, is a mid 1930's 16 ga, solid rib choked modified. The gun is in excellent original condition and never have had ejection problems.
 
3macs1 said:
Sounds like a good friend that doesn't know his gun
Can check but off the top of my head I thought all prior to 1927 were 2 1/2
Also the conversion of a Model 12 to 2-3/4" involves more than just the chamber length, since the ejection port is usually not sufficiently cleared for the open crimp.
Feed and ejection parts may have need of alteration in conversions, also.
Then some say all 12ga were 2 3/4 but they were not from what I have seen on real early ones
Bottom line it has to be checked

Cheers
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3Macs1, My good friend just happened to be one of the best gunsmith's on Vancouver Island many yrs ago, he built many rifles in his day and they are all in good hand's today, likely built from scratch more gun's that most people own in a life time. The mod 12 in my possession has been worked over to take the 2 3/4 shell's and has killed many duck's and geese in his hand. Still have that box of shells that came with the gun, 1 oz 7 1/2 lead shot with 24 gr.4756. As I said I am not a fan of shotgun's after the blow up of my Cooey 20. Have fun with your collection.
 
Johnny G1 said:
3Macs1, My good friend just happened to be one of the best gunsmith's on Vancouver Island many yrs ago, he built many rifles in his day and they are all in good hand's today, likely built from scratch more gun's that most people own in a life time. The mod 12 in my possession has been worked over to take the 2 3/4 shell's and has killed many duck's and geese in his hand. Still have that box of shells that came with the gun, 1 oz 7 1/2 lead shot with 24 gr.4756. As I said I am not a fan of shotgun's after the blow up of my Cooey 20. Have fun with your collection.
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My comment was as a result of yours below
I quote
I got the gun from a good friend and he gave me a box of 2 3/4 shells with it, all I can tell you, as I have never fired it and it has been sitting in my gun cabinet since I got it, not into shotguns other than my Cooey 410 that I bought 63 yrs ago and after having a Cooey 20 blow up in my face, bad firing pin that didn't retract. Haven't fired one since.
If he is alive he should be able to tell you exactly what it is which it seems now you also know but didnot before
Cheers
 
Model 12 facts
Winchester offered a convertion on any standard model 12 to 3" lengthen chamber and open ejection port .
Also the addition of aftermarket choke system weaver, poly and others . As a result you could have a gun with a choke stamp and still be done at the factory .
 
struff55 said:
Model 12 facts
Winchester offered a convertion on any standard model 12 to 3" lengthen chamber and open ejection port .
Also the addition of aftermarket choke system weaver, poly and others . As a result you could have a gun with a choke stamp and still be done at the factory .
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So they changed the receiver to accommodate the longer 3" shots??
 
The addition of any adjustable choke device, Poly, Cutts, Weaver, detract from the value of a Model 12 unless it's a factory installation and without available factory records, for verification, the absence of a choke roll marking is our only method of determination the gun originally left the factory with the choke device. A factory installed Cutts is usually a flanged barrel installation which is quite obvious and a clear indication of a factory install. Some folks like these choke devices but I personally are not one of them.

Rarity, Originality and Condition factored into the state of the economy and current demand usually determines value. The run of mill Model 12 is a real bargain, at present, but smaller gauges and ones with ribs and deluxe wood, trap skeet HD in factory original condition continue to command higher prices.
 
Rod said:
The addition of any adjustable choke device, Poly, Cutts, Weaver, detract from the value of a Model 12 unless it's a factory installation and without available factory records, for verification, the absence of a choke roll marking is our only method of determination the gun originally left the factory with the choke device. A factory installed Cutts is usually a flanged barrel installation which is quite obvious and a clear indication of a factory install. Some folks like these choke devices but I personally are not one of them.

Rarity, Originality and Condition factored into the state of the economy and current demand usually determines value. The run of mill Model 12 is a real bargain, at present, but smaller gauges and ones with ribs and deluxe wood, trap skeet HD in factory original condition continue to command higher prices.
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Hence why I don't want to permanently 'damage' any ones that I come across :) Still looking for a spare HD barrel.. I'm starting to think that this will be almost impossible!
 
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