30-30 Box Magazine

[Fox]

I have been looking at loading for my wife's 30-30 CIL 830 with the box magazine and wanted to ask on here what others have done.

The FTX bullet works well but the idea behind this gun was that we would be able to use it for close range moose as well as deer and bear if and when the time comes.

The FTX bullet is just an SST, so not an ideal moose bullet for sure and the 150 and 170gr RN or FP bullets lose so much velocity it really limits the range for larger animals.

Due to the box magazine I was thinking about loading pointed bullets, specifically the 150gr Nosler Partition for the purpose of moose hunting and it would also work very well for deer. The 150gr Partition is shorter than the FTX bullet and longer than the 150gr RN and 170gr FP bullets.

Due to the bullet length and maximum overall length to fit into the magazine it makes sense to me to load to the maximum COAL for the FTX and also load down as a starting load due to the reduced case capacity with the deeper seated bullet.

Using LVR powder the 150gr RN is listed at a min load of 35.0gr, the 160gr FTX min load at 32.0gr and the 170gr FP min load at 33.0gr. In my head it seems as though I need to load to the 160gr FTX min start load and watch with the Chronograph to see what velocity I get and try to load into a velocity window similar to that of a 150gr RN bullet loaded with LVR in the same gun.

Does all this make sense? I know the 30-30 is not one that has easy to read pressure signs.

I really wish they had an FTX style bullet that was bonded, but deer do not need that and people claim the 30-30 can barely kill a deer.

 

[brybenn]

I loaded some hotcor bullets for a friends 3030 detach mag gun. They worked well on deer and a small bear. Always exited. I think they were 165gr spitzer if i remember right. Partitions would work just as well im sure

 

[577/450]

The anemic 30-30 (LOL) will kill almost anything in north America. That being said I would not purposely go out after grizz or the kodiak bears. It is all about shot placement. In this the uber magnum age groupthink has led people to believe that nothing less than a .338 win mag is required for deer and moose and bear .50bmg is mandatory. The 30-30 has put down millions of animals since it was first manufactured and in all liklyhood wil fill freezers and bellys for years to come'

 

[Boomer]

You don't need a bonded or a monometal bullet to get good terminal performance at .30/30 velocities. Just choose a common 150 gr flat base, cup & core, pointed soft point bullet, most of the big bullet manufactures make em, and load it to about 2400 fps, or the load that predicts 2400 in your manual. Sighted to be 2" high at 100, you'll be zeroed at 175, and about 7"-8" low at 250. I'd expect penetration on game to be about a foot and a half, which, with a bullet expanded to .60" will do in any moose that ever lived, if the bullet is placed well.

 

[Fox]

The anemic 30-30 (LOL) will kill almost anything in north America. That being said I would not purposely go out after grizz or the kodiak bears. It is all about shot placement. In this the uber magnum age groupthink has led people to believe that nothing less than a .338 win mag is required for deer and moose and bear .50bmg is mandatory. The 30-30 has put down millions of animals since it was first manufactured and in all liklyhood wil fill freezers and bellys for years to come'

I agree 100% with you on this one. My wife is 5'1" tall and all normal rifles just do not fit her. We were looking for something short and low recoil that did not break the bank as this hunting thing is still not a 100% sure thing for her. $250 for a CIL 830 with a scope mount on it, we put a Bushnell 3-8x40mm on it and man is this thing accurate.

If moose hunting is not going to happen I will probably just load FTX bullets as I have a tub mag gun that I would like to load for as well, keep 1 bullet for them both but the SST bullet one something stronger like a moose, not the ideal.

I always laugh when people say the 30-30 is a 50 yard max deer gun but yet they say the 308 Win is great out to 500 yards on deer, well, if you take the exact same bullet moving at the exact same speed then the bullet will do exactly the same thing, no matter what the head stamp on the case says.

 

[Fox]

You don't need a bonded or a monometal bullet to get good terminal performance at .30/30 velocities. Just choose a common 150 gr flat base, cup & core, pointed soft point bullet, most of the big bullet manufactures make em, and load it to about 2400 fps, or the load that predicts 2400 in your manual. Sighted to be 2" high at 100, you'll be zeroed at 175, and about 7"-8" low at 250. I'd expect penetration on game to be about a foot and a half, which, with a bullet expanded to .60" will do in any moose that ever lived, if the bullet is placed well.

No, don't need bonded, but I want something that does not explode either, hence the idea behind the partition, that and the bullet length is short as it is flat base, so it could be loaded to a usable COAL for the magazine and not lose too much space in the case.

 

[Boomer]

No, don't need bonded, but I want something that does not explode either, hence the idea behind the partition, that and the bullet length is short as it is flat base, so it could be loaded to a usable COAL for the magazine and not lose too much space in the case.

A 150 gr C&C PSP won't explode at 2400 fps, and has proven track record going back over more than a century on game when used in a wide variety of cartridges including the .303 Brit, .308, and .30/06, and 8X57. This indicates that cup and core bullets don't typically explode at 2700 fps either, even when used on heavish game. A velocity of 2400 fps is almost the ideal impact velocity, never mind muzzle velocity for a cup and core bullet.

 

[Fox]

A 150 gr C&C PSP won't explode at 2400 fps, and has proven track record going back over more than a century on game when used in a wide variety of cartridges including the .303 Brit, .308, and .30/06, and 8X57. This indicates that cup and core bullets don't typically explode at 2700 fps either, even when used on heavish game. A velocity of 2400 fps is almost the ideal impact velocity, never mind muzzle velocity for a cup and core bullet.

No, not standard cup and core exploding, the FTX, which is supposed to act the same as an SST, a Super Shock Tip. I really do not want to load an SST for moose.

If this will not be used for anything larger than deer I will stick with the 160gr FTX as I can use that in a tube mag as well, this is looking to larger game, bears and moose where I would prefer greater penetration.

I need to get this back on point, is my thought on a starting load accurate? 150gr spire point with a similar length to the 160gr FTX start with the slightly lower loading for the 160gr and work up from there to be safe? Target 2400fps (150gr velocity) as an ideal to maintain a safe pressure.

 

[Boomer]

No, not standard cup and core exploding, the FTX, which is supposed to act the same as an SST, a Super Shock Tip. I really do not want to load an SST for moose.

If this will not be used for anything larger than deer I will stick with the 160gr FTX as I can use that in a tube mag as well, this is looking to larger game, bears and moose where I would prefer greater penetration.

I need to get this back on point, is my thought on a starting load accurate? 150gr spire point with a similar length to the 160gr FTX start with the slightly lower loading for the 160gr and work up from there to be safe? Target 2400fps (150gr velocity) as an ideal to maintain a safe pressure.

I don't think you need to go as far as using the minimum load for a heavier bullet, the starting load data per bullet weight is very conservative, and allows for many variables such as variations in bullet wight, variation in case capacity, variances in seating depth, and so on. LVR appears to be a good choice of powder, which according to the Hodgdon on line load data, allows you to safely break the 2400 fps threshold, which is intended for weaker lever actions.

 

[Fox]

I don't think you need to go as far as using the minimum load for a heavier bullet, the starting load data per bullet weight is very conservative, and allows for many variables such as variations in bullet wight, variation in case capacity, variances in seating depth, and so on. LVR appears to be a good choice of powder, which according to the Hodgdon on line load data, allows you to safely break the 2400 fps threshold, which is intended for weaker lever actions.

That LVR powder and the FTX bullets make the 30-30 a different animal really, I still have not picked up any of this powder, I have H4895 for any 30-30 I have done before but it looks to be well worth it.

Do you know how you would tell your pressure is getting too high with a 30-30? I know that flattening primers would be well over what would be safe for the lever actions and probably this savage bolt too.

 

[Ganderite]

The way to check pressure is extraction problems and velocity over 2450.

The 30-30 will take down moose with conventional C&C bullets. My grandfather shot 50 big moose, and only 1 needed a second shot. He had an old 30-30 rifle. He was a good shot.

Personally, I would use a 170 gr round nose bullet. But the 150 Partition sounds like an excellent choice if you want the security of a premium bullet.

 

[Fox]

The way to check pressure is extraction problems and velocity over 2450.

The 30-30 will take down moose with conventional C&C bullets. My grandfather shot 50 big moose, and only 1 needed a second shot. He had an old 30-30 rifle. He was a good shot.

Personally, I would use a 170 gr round nose bullet. But the 150 Partition sounds like an excellent choice if you want the security of a premium bullet.

I want to hold energy and have less drop, hence the pointed bullet for her rifle.

I know a ton of moose have been shot with them, the partition just gives that extra penetration for off angle or not exactly where the shot should go, although it probably would make very little difference if I used a Partition or a Hornady Interlock.

 

[brybenn]

At 2400fps youd be surprised at how well the sst holds together. It is basically an interlock with a pointed tip. Yes its more violent in the first 4" but recovered bullets between the 2 are almost identical. I use both. Not in 3030 but in 2506 and 3006

For loading id find a manual that lists the given bullet weight instead of guessing. Im sure my loading manual list 150gr bullet weights.

 

[Fox]

At 2400fps youd be surprised at how well the sst holds together. It is basically an interlock with a pointed tip. Yes its more violent in the first 4" but recovered bullets between the 2 are almost identical. I use both. Not in 3030 but in 2506 and 3006

For loading id find a manual that lists the given bullet weight instead of guessing. Im sure my loading manual list 150gr bullet weights.

The concern is the amount of bullet inside the case, the 160gr FTX is a longer bullet than the 150gr RN or 170gr FP and the reloading data takes the internal volume difference into account. The 150gr spire point is longer than the 150gr RN and therefore to maintain the same COAL the bullet is pushed further into the case and thus increasing the pressure to some extent.