Quick load
- Thread starter Slimbo
- Start date
You also need the case capacity in H2O and a chronograph to give you actual velocity. Then you change the burn rate in Quickload until the two velocities match.
When the velocities match Quickload will give you the approximate chamber pressure for a workup load. Meaning chamber pressure and velocity estimates for the incremental increase in loads.
In another forum someone asked the same question for a 280 ackley and someone posted the Quickload data. But the data was wrong because the case capacity used was less than the standard .280 Rem.
I have Quickload but I would never give out any data because the people asking for Quickload data do not give out enough information to give accurate data.
Example the default case capacity in Quickload for the .223/5.56 is 28.0 grains of H2O. And my cases have a capacity of 30.6 and this creates a 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure.
When the velocities match Quickload will give you the approximate chamber pressure for a workup load. Meaning chamber pressure and velocity estimates for the incremental increase in loads.
In another forum someone asked the same question for a 280 ackley and someone posted the Quickload data. But the data was wrong because the case capacity used was less than the standard .280 Rem.
I have Quickload but I would never give out any data because the people asking for Quickload data do not give out enough information to give accurate data.
Example the default case capacity in Quickload for the .223/5.56 is 28.0 grains of H2O. And my cases have a capacity of 30.6 and this creates a 6,000 psi difference in chamber pressure.
how far off the lands?
There is obviously more to this program than I was aware of. I was just looking for a table like you’ve posted in that big thread about the 6.5CM vs the 260, so that I can compare the numbers to my manuals. I’m away from the reloading bench right now and can’t remember the distance to the lands but I could get that in the next few days.
From what I can recall, distance from the lands doesn't matter in QL. What matters is if you are jammed into the lands which is unlikely for most hunting loads. It increases the start pressure and QL can account for this IIRC.
distance off the lands does matter, as it will effect start pressure. Subtract 145psi for every .005" off the lands (+7200psi over bullets baseline start pressure)
Here's a generic prediction based on a .050" jump to lands. Case capacity may be more or less than your brass
Here's a generic prediction based on a .050" jump to lands. Case capacity may be more or less than your brass
Code:
Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 62.904 grain H2O = 4.084 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.280 inch = 83.31 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 89 52.20 2640 2476 45123 10857 95.6 1.291
-09.0 90 52.78 2668 2529 46372 10985 96.0 1.277
-08.0 91 53.36 2696 2582 47664 11110 96.3 1.264
-07.0 92 53.94 2724 2635 48998 11232 96.7 1.250
-06.0 93 54.52 2751 2690 50376 11351 97.0 1.237
-05.0 94 55.10 2779 2744 51803 11467 97.4 1.224
-04.0 95 55.68 2807 2800 53277 11580 97.7 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
-03.0 96 56.26 2835 2856 54800 11689 97.9 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 97 56.84 2863 2913 56378 11795 98.2 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 98 57.42 2891 2970 58005 11897 98.5 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 99 58.00 2919 3028 59680 11996 98.7 1.159 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 100 58.58 2947 3086 61407 12090 98.9 1.147 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 101 59.16 2975 3145 63187 12181 99.1 1.134 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 102 59.74 3004 3205 65022 12267 99.3 1.122 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 103 60.32 3032 3265 66915 12349 99.5 1.109 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 104 60.90 3060 3326 68868 12426 99.6 1.097 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 99 58.00 3054 3314 70649 11695 100.0 1.095 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 99 58.00 2739 2666 49002 11650 93.0 1.239For sure it will matter on the load. QL has no inputs for primer, but adjusting the burn rate once you chrony the load will take care of that. It's 145psi per .005" off the lands, so 1450 psi for .050"
I use Rem 9.5M magnum and F210M standard primers in my 280AI, but not interchangeably.
I use Rem 9.5M magnum and F210M standard primers in my 280AI, but not interchangeably.
Using QL defaults with no tweaks. Check against data above. Tell me there's no difference. Garbage in, garbage out
Code:
Cartridge : .280 Ack Imp
Bullet : .284, 160, Nosler AccuBond 54932
Useable Case Capaci: 63.864 grain H2O = 4.147 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Powder : Alliant Reloder-22
Predicted data by increasing and decreasing the given charge,
incremented in steps of 1.0% of nominal charge.
CAUTION: Figures exceed maximum and minimum recommended loads !
Step Fill. Charge Vel. Energy Pmax Pmuz Prop.Burnt B_Time
% % Grains fps ft.lbs psi psi % ms
-10.0 93 55.08 2656 2506 42649 11272 95.9 1.389
-09.0 94 55.69 2686 2564 44122 11402 96.3 1.367
-08.0 95 56.30 2717 2623 45651 11528 96.8 1.345
-07.0 96 56.92 2748 2683 47235 11649 97.2 1.324
-06.0 97 57.53 2779 2743 48879 11766 97.6 1.303
-05.0 98 58.14 2809 2804 50583 11878 97.9 1.283
-04.0 99 58.75 2840 2866 52351 11985 98.2 1.263
-03.0 100 59.36 2871 2928 54177 12087 98.5 1.243 ! Near Maximum !
-02.0 101 59.98 2901 2991 56061 12183 98.8 1.224 ! Near Maximum !
-01.0 102 60.59 2932 3054 58010 12274 99.1 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
+00.0 103 61.20 2962 3118 60029 12359 99.3 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
+01.0 104 61.81 2993 3182 62123 12439 99.5 1.168 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+02.0 105 62.42 3023 3247 64293 12512 99.6 1.151 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+03.0 106 63.04 3053 3312 66544 12580 99.8 1.133 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+04.0 107 63.65 3084 3378 68880 12641 99.9 1.116 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
+05.0 108 64.26 3114 3445 71303 12696 99.9 1.099 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Results caused by ± 10% powder lot-to-lot burning rate variation using nominal charge
Data for burning rate increased by 10% relative to nominal value:
+Ba 103 61.20 3099 3413 72943 11941 100.0 1.095 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Data for burning rate decreased by 10% relative to nominal value:
-Ba 103 61.20 2769 2724 47835 12110 93.9 1.308Quickload Reloading Software
Quickload Helps Assess Multiple Variables During Load Development
http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/test-quickload-review/
"WARNING QuickLOAD is a computer simulation of centerfire cartridge performance. YOU MUST NEVER just “plug in the numbers” and use QuickLOAD’s output for a load recipe. That is foolish and dangerous. There are many reasons why the data QuickLOAD generates may not be safe in YOUR gun. Before loading live ammunition, you should always check with the powder-makers’ most recent load data. In fact, you should check multiple sources if possible, and consult with individuals who actually load for that cartridge. Sierra Bullets offers free load maps which, in general, are fairly conservative. Even when using manufacturers’ load data, start 10% low and work up. Differences in brass, primer brand, and seating depth can make huge differences in pressure. Always reload conservatively and always double- and triple-check QuickLOAD’s output against reliable load data supplied by the powder-makers".
I have Quickload and I still make workup loads by averaging the suggested start loads from several reloading manuals. And as I work up I look for the point the primers become flush with the base of the case. At this point the chamber pressure is high enough to make the brass stretch to meet the bolt face.
In another forum someone gave out Quickload data based on the Nosler case capacity. And Nosler gives the case capacity from the base of the bullet and Quickload wants the case capacity filled to the case mouth.
Bottom line, you are better off looking in several reloading manuals than asking for Quickload information in reloading forums. Quickload requires tweaking from its default settings to even get approximate data. And Quickload just gives you computer generated guesstimates even after tweaking the settings. Just look at how the load data varies in the the different reloading manuals. There are simply to many variations in firearms and reloading components for Quickload to output the approximate information without a chronograph, correct case capacity, etc.
Below is a example of variations in rifle bores, besides bore diameter and this is just "one" of many differences in firearms that Quickload doesn't know, and why it needs tweaked.
Below a bore scope photo of a new Savage button rifled bore.
Below a bore scope photo of a custom hand lapped barrel.
Another example, the throat in my Savage ,223 is longer than the throats in my AR15 rifles. So it can be loaded slightly warmer than published load data with the bullets seated longer.
Quickload Helps Assess Multiple Variables During Load Development
http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/test-quickload-review/
"WARNING QuickLOAD is a computer simulation of centerfire cartridge performance. YOU MUST NEVER just “plug in the numbers” and use QuickLOAD’s output for a load recipe. That is foolish and dangerous. There are many reasons why the data QuickLOAD generates may not be safe in YOUR gun. Before loading live ammunition, you should always check with the powder-makers’ most recent load data. In fact, you should check multiple sources if possible, and consult with individuals who actually load for that cartridge. Sierra Bullets offers free load maps which, in general, are fairly conservative. Even when using manufacturers’ load data, start 10% low and work up. Differences in brass, primer brand, and seating depth can make huge differences in pressure. Always reload conservatively and always double- and triple-check QuickLOAD’s output against reliable load data supplied by the powder-makers".
I have Quickload and I still make workup loads by averaging the suggested start loads from several reloading manuals. And as I work up I look for the point the primers become flush with the base of the case. At this point the chamber pressure is high enough to make the brass stretch to meet the bolt face.
In another forum someone gave out Quickload data based on the Nosler case capacity. And Nosler gives the case capacity from the base of the bullet and Quickload wants the case capacity filled to the case mouth.
Bottom line, you are better off looking in several reloading manuals than asking for Quickload information in reloading forums. Quickload requires tweaking from its default settings to even get approximate data. And Quickload just gives you computer generated guesstimates even after tweaking the settings. Just look at how the load data varies in the the different reloading manuals. There are simply to many variations in firearms and reloading components for Quickload to output the approximate information without a chronograph, correct case capacity, etc.
Below is a example of variations in rifle bores, besides bore diameter and this is just "one" of many differences in firearms that Quickload doesn't know, and why it needs tweaked.
Below a bore scope photo of a new Savage button rifled bore.
Below a bore scope photo of a custom hand lapped barrel.
Another example, the throat in my Savage ,223 is longer than the throats in my AR15 rifles. So it can be loaded slightly warmer than published load data with the bullets seated longer.
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I've measured brass capacity from four different 280 Ackleys. All Nosler brass, h20 capacity has ranged from 73.4grs to 74.7grs. Hornady brass could be different. Fireformed 280, 270 or 30-06 brass could be significantly different.
My lot # of 160AB are 1.402" long and weigh 159.9grs. This will change from lot to lot. This does make a difference
My 160gr AB load is at 3.392" OAL, .024" off lands. A Kimber 84L with a 3.28" OAL and potentially a longer jump to lands, does make a difference
Adjusting weighting factor from QL default of 0.5 to 0.42 (courtesy of Pierre van der Walt) does make a difference
Powder temperature does matter
Burn rate (Ba) changes as chamber pressure changes. Ba will climb as pressures approx 65k psi. At 50k psi the Ba will be lower. Its advised to not adjust Ba more than 5% to match chrony results, and this is where having accurate info on the other inputs of the program make a difference
There is lots of good information out there on how to tune QL to acheive best results. Like any data source, it's always wise to start low and work up slowly with your rifle, your components, to find your load. A chronograph or even better, a doppler radar, is a must have
My lot # of 160AB are 1.402" long and weigh 159.9grs. This will change from lot to lot. This does make a difference
My 160gr AB load is at 3.392" OAL, .024" off lands. A Kimber 84L with a 3.28" OAL and potentially a longer jump to lands, does make a difference
Adjusting weighting factor from QL default of 0.5 to 0.42 (courtesy of Pierre van der Walt) does make a difference
Powder temperature does matter
Burn rate (Ba) changes as chamber pressure changes. Ba will climb as pressures approx 65k psi. At 50k psi the Ba will be lower. Its advised to not adjust Ba more than 5% to match chrony results, and this is where having accurate info on the other inputs of the program make a difference
There is lots of good information out there on how to tune QL to acheive best results. Like any data source, it's always wise to start low and work up slowly with your rifle, your components, to find your load. A chronograph or even better, a doppler radar, is a must have
When I first got Quickload I did not have a chronograph, and inputting the powder charges from reloading manuals was way off.
Then I measured my case capacity and the loads got a little closer to the manuals.
When I got the chronograph and adjusted the burn rate in Quickload the output was a lot closer to the manuals, but could vary 100 to 200 fps
Bottom line with a chronograph your chamber pressure readings will give you a better idea of maximum pressure. And without a chronograph the powder charges velocity and chamber pressure output will be far off the manuals.
Bottom line, Quickload is not a miracle software program and needs accurate input tweaking to give out accurate guesstimates.
Then I measured my case capacity and the loads got a little closer to the manuals.
When I got the chronograph and adjusted the burn rate in Quickload the output was a lot closer to the manuals, but could vary 100 to 200 fps
Bottom line with a chronograph your chamber pressure readings will give you a better idea of maximum pressure. And without a chronograph the powder charges velocity and chamber pressure output will be far off the manuals.
Bottom line, Quickload is not a miracle software program and needs accurate input tweaking to give out accurate guesstimates.
