Someone explain difference between TradeEx's M96 sporters?

TheCoachZed

TheCoachZed

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
40   0   0
Location
Southern NB, aka "Canada's Bible Belt"
What, generally, is the difference between Stigas, Carl Gustafs, Vapen Depoten, Voere, etc? Which is more desirable?

Also, I see all of the .30-06 conversions have cracked tangs. Are these fixable?

Are the barrels on the .30-06's chrome lined as I saw suggested somewhere?
 
Edit- I tend to err on the side of caution, but based on the comments below, it appears to be a fine combination that just needs a bit of work to tidy up. As such, I'm revising my post (I'm leaving up the original just for reference).

Original Post:
I can't really tell valuation differences between M96s, but I think that chambering one in .30-06 is asking a lot of the 96 action. Jerry Kuhnhausen, in his book about Mauser Bolt actions notes that you need to be careful about the strength limitations of the M91 to 96 Mauser actions. You may want to do a bit more research to find out about what sort of safety margins are present. As for cracked stocks, the above issues could be related. Have you had a look at the M98 sporters that TradeEx offers, or the M96s in 6.5x55?
 
Last edited:
Buren said:
As for cracked stocks, the above issues could be related.
Click to expand...
Cracked stocks are very common among older 98s and 96s. They are usually cracked at the upper and or lower tangs. This is not caused by the chambering having too much power or recoil but is the result of the recoil lug on the receiver no longer being supported by the stock in the proper location and the whole receiver moves rearward in the stock upon firing and splits the tangs. Proper glass bedding at the recoil lug and allowing a small relief between the tangs and the stock will prevent these common splits.
 
I have a Stiga 30-06. OP asked what are the differences. Virtually all of them started as M1894 or M1896 built as military rifles at Carl Gustafs armoury. (A few very early ones made in Germany) M94 and M96 built at same time for many years - the 94 was for cavalry - short (17.7") barrel, bent bolt; the 96 was for infantry - long barrel (29"), straight bolt. All chambered for 6.5x55; all receivers identical. By 1940's, some production moved to Husqvarna factory - Husqvarna made sporting rifles to M94/M96 specs, but without thumb cut on left side of receiver - no thumb cut by Husqvarna was approved for their runs of M38 (mid-length barrels) for Swedish military. Lack of thumb cut did not "strengthen" receiver as far as cartridge PSI, but appears to stiffen it. For some (me), this makes the Husqvarna no-thumb-cut more desirable. 10's of thousands of these sold off as surplus in 1950's, especially the M94's. Stiga and other companies bought up the surplus and converted to sporter - quite common - it is how Sako/Tikka started out, Parker Hale, Vapon Depoten, Voere, etc. used Swedish M94/96/38 and various country's milsurp Mauser 98's as well.
My Stiga has barrel made by Schultz & Larson (Denmark target barrel maker), with Danish proof stamps. Longer than normal throat would help handle breech pressure. Given that it was proof tested in 1950's, and in great shape, I have no concerns about its ability to handle standard SAAMI or CIP 30-06 loads.
Cracks at tang of mauser (94, 96, 98) are due to wood stock shrinking and/or loose action screws allowing receiver to move rearward in stock under recoil - tapered rear tang acts as wedge to split the stock. Can repair crack with glue and cross pins, but must tighten up the bedding at the recoil lug and provide clearance at rear of tang to prevent recurrence.
I have never seen a chrome lined mauser barrel, but that doesn't mean much. No doubt someone made them as aftermarket barrels?
See the book "The Mauser in Sweden; Crown Jewels" by Dana Jones for more information about Swede mausers.
 
Potashminer said:
I have a Stiga 30-06. OP asked what are the differences. Virtually all of them started as M1894 or M1896 built as military rifles at Carl Gustafs armoury. (A few very early ones made in Germany) M94 and M96 built at same time for many years - the 94 was for cavalry - short (17.7") barrel, bent bolt; the 96 was for infantry - long barrel (29"), straight bolt. All chambered for 6.5x55; all receivers identical. By 1940's, some production moved to Husqvarna factory - Husqvarna made sporting rifles to M94/M96 specs, but without thumb cut on left side of receiver - no thumb cut by Husqvarna was approved for their runs of M38 (mid-length barrels) for Swedish military. Lack of thumb cut did not "strengthen" receiver as far as cartridge PSI, but appears to stiffen it. For some (me), this makes the Husqvarna no-thumb-cut more desirable. 10's of thousands of these sold off as surplus in 1950's, especially the M94's. Stiga and other companies bought up the surplus and converted to sporter - quite common - it is how Sako/Tikka started out, Parker Hale, Vapon Depoten, Voere, etc. used Swedish M94/96/38 and various country's milsurp Mauser 98's as well.
My Stiga has barrel made by Schultz & Larson (Denmark target barrel maker), with Danish proof stamps. Longer than normal throat would help handle breech pressure. Given that it was proof tested in 1950's, and in great shape, I have no concerns about its ability to handle standard SAAMI or CIP 30-06 loads.
Cracks at tang of mauser (94, 96, 98) are due to wood stock shrinking and/or loose action screws allowing receiver to move rearward in stock under recoil - tapered rear tang acts as wedge to split the stock. Can repair crack with glue and cross pins, but must tighten up the bedding at the recoil lug and provide clearance at rear of tang to prevent recurrence.
I have never seen a chrome lined mauser barrel, but that doesn't mean much. No doubt someone made them as aftermarket barrels?
See the book "The Mauser in Sweden; Crown Jewels" by Dana Jones for more information about Swede mausers.
Click to expand...

But how does it shoot? And how does it carry? :)

Every time I see people talking about these rifles there are dire warnings of pressure, yet I've seen hundreds of them sold on TradeEx over the years and never heard of anyone in this country blowing one up, with factory ammo or otherwise. Of course they're no M98.
 
I have no worries about the strength of the M96 actions with a .473/.480" case head cartridge with factory loads and non-hotrodded handloads. This is for three reasons. One is like Thecoachzed says: anecdotally, none have blown up with factory ammo.

Two is that Norma uses or used M96 actions for pressure testing. They once even fired an 81000 psi load from a belted magnum with an M96 action. That is a huge bolt thrust! Larger case head AND high pressure. Brass-flowing pressure so the case to chamber wall friction doesn't help reduce bolt thrust. The action held. Here is a quote from another website:
*** "I set up a pressure barrel and fired a round. "Errr, sir, better not fire another." came from the technician. Pressure was a rather enthusiastic 81,000 psi. The equipment is only rated up to 65,200 psi! It says a lot for the old 1896 Swedish Mauser action that the pressure barrel was screwed into that it didn't let go and there was only a little stickiness when I opened the bolt."

The above statement was attributed to:

Dr. John Heath
D. Sc. Technical Support
Norma Precision

It's refrence to the incident was printed in the Dec-Jan, 2010 issue of Handloader Ammunition Reloading Journal

The M-96 Swedish Mauser action was screwed onto a pressure barrel chambered for a 300 Winchester Magnum. The reloader had sent in some of his regular reloads that were by the book but giving him trouble. Turns out he was at max loads for a 150 gr bullet but loading 180 gr bullets.

So if you are told that the Swede is an inferior action, keep this little story in mind.
Best,
Ed ***

Three is my own personal experience with a handloading error... I failed to check and trim "once-fired" brass that I bought before reloading. I left a case at 55.25mm. Trim length is 54.75 and MAX is 55.00. The too-long case chambered but the neck pinched the bullet. In the fired case I could see that the very end was tapered down; it couldn't release the bullet freely. Needless to say the action locked up. I had to unload the remaining cartridges by dropping the floor plate because when I tried to hammer the bolt open, the bolt handle that I had re-welded broke off. When I finally got it open at home, the primer dropped right out and the case head had a ridge in it looking like a belted cartridge! Gas had leaked through the bolt but nothing broke. The bolt lugs were fine and headspace (judging from Hornady case comparator measurements on pre- and post-incident cases) did not increase.

Long story short: an M98 can handle a hotrod belted magnum or even a rebated .404 Jeff/WSM cased cartridge. An M96 can handle a 30-06.
 
The 96 based actions have a relatively shallow recoil lug. Over time, the mating stock wood compresses and the rear tang bears against the stock, and cracking is the usual result. If one glass beds the recoil lug area, the "setback" is mitigated.
 
The split tang issue isn't serious and can be fixed with proper bedding of the recoil lug as others have stated above. It should be considered a "must do" when you're going over your rifle after receiving it from Tradex. There are rifles in various conditions on their site, but that gives you a variety of rifles to choose from depending on your intentions. I personally enjoy bringing back the stock to original condition and giving everything a total deep cleaning.
I have a Stiga in 30-06 that was a great deal, and I wouldn't worry about firing factory strength loads through it, but this one I use to play with cast bullet loads. It's a very pleasant and fine handling rifle that I enjoy shooting like a .22 on steroids.
My 9.3x57 M46 is one of the best handling rifles I have. It comes up nicely and naturally when shooting using the open sights, They knew what they were doing in 1927 when she was built. Even nicer than the M98 in the same caliber which is a fine rifle too.
There's nothing wrong with spending $300 or so to get a nice rifle and making it your own.
 
I've heard there were inconsistencies in the heat treat of the earlier guns, and thus they shouldn't be loaded hot. Can anyone confirm this, and if so does anyone know what years may be subject to this? Some of these actions are 120 years old...

I've been tempted to buy a 9.3x57 for a while now...
 
I have read about heat treat problems with early Springfield Model 1903 rifles made in USA, but I have never read of "heat treat" problems with Swedish Mausers. So far as I understand they were essentially "case hardened", not through and through heat treated. Where did you read that there were "inconsistencies in the heat treat" of Swedish mausers? I'd like to research that further.
 
Big Uke said:
The split tang issue isn't serious and can be fixed with proper bedding of the recoil lug as others have stated above. It should be considered a "must do" when you're going over your rifle after receiving it from Tradex. There are rifles in various conditions on their site, but that gives you a variety of rifles to choose from depending on your intentions. I personally enjoy bringing back the stock to original condition and giving everything a total deep cleaning.
I have a Stiga in 30-06 that was a great deal, and I wouldn't worry about firing factory strength loads through it, but this one I use to play with cast bullet loads. It's a very pleasant and fine handling rifle that I enjoy shooting like a .22 on steroids.
My 9.3x57 M46 is one of the best handling rifles I have. It comes up nicely and naturally when shooting using the open sights, They knew what they were doing in 1927 when she was built. Even nicer than the M98 in the same caliber which is a fine rifle too.
There's nothing wrong with spending $300 or so to get a nice rifle and making it your own.
Click to expand...

:agree: I love my 9.3x57 as well for packin' around the woods & cast bombs are all I feed 'er. I installed a Timney trigger in my one. TradeEx rocks.;)

View attachment 191944
 
SuperCub,
Thanks for the explanation, which makes a lot of sense.

Based on the comments above, I've edited my original post. After all, if most users (and tests) have done just fine, then I'm probably being a bit over-cautious.
 
I can't speak of heavy calibre issues with the Tradeex swedes but I can say that I love my 30-06 M98 and two M96s in 6.5x55. Beautifully made and zero issues ever. Had the M98 for about 10 years now and lord only knows how many rounds the original owner(s) put through her.
 
Potashminer said:
I have read about heat treat problems with early Springfield Model 1903 rifles made in USA, but I have never read of "heat treat" problems with Swedish Mausers. So far as I understand they were essentially "case hardened", not through and through heat treated. Where did you read that there were "inconsistencies in the heat treat" of Swedish mausers? I'd like to research that further.
Click to expand...

I dunno. The internet? Around here maybe? I can't say I have a source, that's why I'm curious if anyone else has heard anything about it?

I have also heard about the 1903s with brittle receivers - I hear they used to eyeball the color of the steel to tell when it's the right temp, but the right color would vary in temperature depending on whether it was sunny or not. (that I heard from forgotten weapons I think)
 
I can confirm what you heard about the 1903's - from m1903.com website - "Unfortunately, according to General Hatcher, the officer in charge of the investigation, "... it was quickly found that the ‘right heat’ as judged by the skillful eye of the old timers was up to 300 degrees hotter on a bright sunny day than it was on a dark cloudy one" (See Hatcher, Julian Hatcher’s Notebook , Third Edition, Stackpole Books, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, 1966, page 215)."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom