The 223 as a viable big game round.

I have a question for the crowd... but before that I'll offer this disclaimer - It's not to hijack the thread but rather to foster slightly different discussion on the thread's topic... I'll also start out and state what side of the fence I sit on for transparency sake, I think that with the the right .223 load/barrel length (for velocity) combination it could certainly be adequate to reliably dispatch a whitetail within reasonable scenarios...

The question I have is - "The 223 as a viable big game round" In what scenario would those of you who would use .223 to hunt deer; would you actually desire it over anything else you potentially could have? Looking for context here.

I ask this because, well my white tail hunting experience is all on the eastern side of the Country. I've shot many of them with all manner of .30 options from 7.62x39, .30-30, .308, and 30-06 (and one with 7mm Rem Mag). Being in Ontario, All were typically well within 100 yards, maybe with one at roughly 100 or so... All projectiles passed through and through. With those experiences in mind, It kinda makes me wonder when I cross paths with someone dogging through the same thick brush with a 300WinMag... And I've heard the "One Gun" for all big game hunting argument from many hunters, regardless of the scenario they are in. I'm curious if they consider what a safe background for one caliber isn't necessarily for another, when they're dogging in a group like that. I'm also curious if they lent any thought as to the ballistic performance of magnum loads at close range when they're at their peak velocity in scenarios such as this (Potential for pass through without opportunity to expand). These examples are extremes at either end I get that. Just curious as to context, and if anyone out there would "prefer" the performance of their correct .223 load over almost everything else...

I think that context would be interesting to hear given the upcoming availability of non-restricted .223 semi-autos, of which I have no doubt many will be used to take whitetail.
 
I read through the first few pages and got bored. Everyone is discussing whether or not using a 223 on deer is ethical. That debate has been done to death. Saskatchewan has rewritten their calibre regs so now you can use a ruger 204 legally to take Elk. Bullet over .17 and an empty case length of over 32mm. AT the end of the day. Stupid people will do stupid things. No law will make any difference. A 300 Blackout used to be legal. There was never an energy requirement to speak of so the calibre restrictions are pointless. Sorry its a bit off topic.

Cartridges That are not allowed
22 Hornet
22 K Hornet
218 Bee
25-20 Winchester
30 Carbine
32-20 Winchester
357 Magnum
41 REm Magnum
44-40 Winchester
45 Colt

It's on page 11 if you care to read it. http://publications.gov.sk.ca/documents/66/93283-Hunters and Trappers Guide.pdf
 
Last edited:
MuskokaJoe said:
...All projectiles passed through and through. With those experiences in mind, It kinda makes me wonder when I cross paths with someone dogging through the same thick brush with a 300WinMag... And I've heard the "One Gun" for all big game hunting argument from many hunters, regardless of the scenario they are in. I'm curious if they consider what a safe background for one caliber isn't necessarily for another, when they're dogging in a group like that. I'm also curious if they lent any thought as to the ballistic performance of magnum loads at close range when they're at their peak velocity in scenarios such as this (Potential for pass through without opportunity to expand). These examples are extremes at either end I get that. Just curious as to context, and if anyone out there would "prefer" the performance of their correct .223 load over almost everything else...
Click to expand...

A couple of misconceptions here... a backstop is either safe or it's not safe... regardless of calibre, you have to assume the bullet will pass through. I can't think of any hunting scenario where it would be safe to shoot in a certain direction with, say a .44/40, but not safe with a .300 mag.

Secondly the notion that bullets travel too fast to expand is erroneous. Velocity promotes expansion, it doesn't inhibit it.

The only situation where I would feel I wasn't handicapped using a .223 would be on the west coast ( Haida Gwaii) where the deer are quite small.
I have an acquaintance with bad shoulders (surgery on both). He can't take any sort of recoil. He's given up hunting, but a .223 might be a solution for him. He would have to hunt within the limitations of the cartridge, but at least he would be hunting.
 
You guys realize that if the .223 is legalized for deer, guys aren’t going to be rushing out to exchange thier 30-06 for a 223, right?

So there isnt going to be a line up at Walmart of hunters buying varmit ammo to hunt deer.
 
Gatehouse said:
You guys realize that if the .223 is legalized for deer, guys aren’t going to be rushing out to exchange thier 30-06 for a 223, right?

So there isnt going to be a line up at Walmart of hunters buying varmit ammo to hunt deer.
Click to expand...

No... no line-ups, nobody rushing out to exchange their .30-06's for .223's... but some will choose them, some will start with them, and some will use varmint ammo.

It is likely that the ones choosing .223's will be the "least experienced... most of those with experience will know better... "most."
 
There's a small bunch of us out there who've tipped over deer with 17 cal rifles on shots to the bean. We be speakin' shots in close, and with high power air rifles like the Diana 48-54 models firing Promethius sabot pellets. There's also a bigger group of folks out there that take down the biggest critters we have to offer here with the 17 Rem using similar tactics.

The .223 worked best for me as a running deer target round from a Rem 788 back in the day at meat shoots, but I never used it on meat critters.
 
9.3mauser said:
A couple of misconceptions here... a backstop is either safe or it's not safe... regardless of calibre, you have to assume the bullet will pass through. I can't think of any hunting scenario where it would be safe to shoot in a certain direction with, say a .44/40, but not safe with a .300 mag.
Click to expand...
. Fair enough and I don’t necessarily disagree, but I can tell you crossing paths with the fellow I did, we likely had to close within 60 to 80 yards just to see each other. I suspect his 300WM might push through brush substantially farther than the 44/40 you mention, or for that matter - 223.

Secondly the notion that bullets travel too fast to expand is erroneous. Velocity promotes expansion, it doesn't inhibit it.
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, I meant what I said rather anecdotally, but there are a fair amount of articles that point out that many magnum calibers arguably perform better terminally or more as intended at range as opposed up close. That is after all what they were designed for. I get those differences in performance are likely negligible as far as the deer is concerned when hit in a vital area...
As it relates to this thread here, a bonded 62-70gr 223 projectile wold arguably be the opposite as far as it’s performance curve goes, performing “its” best at its higher velocity in deer sized game where the medium isn’t necessarily all that wide, and not having much left over once it’s done it’s job.

The only situation where I would feel I wasn't handicapped using a .223 would be on the west coast ( Haida Gwaii) where the deer are quite small.
I have an acquaintance with bad shoulders (surgery on both). He can't take any sort of recoil. He's given up hunting, but a .223 might be a solution for him. He would have to hunt within the limitations of the cartridge, but at least he would be hunting.
Click to expand...

Absolutely agreed and I’d say a positive and thoughtful use of that caliber for that purpose. It’s context like that, that oftentimes gets overlooked in threads like this...
 
Last edited:
hoytcanon said:
No... no line-ups, nobody rushing out to exchange their .30-06's for .223's... but some will choose them, some will start with them, and some will use varmint ammo.

It is likely that the ones choosing .223's will be the "least experienced... most of those with experience will know better... "most."
Click to expand...

What a dumb statement. I mean come on. We have established that the 223 is already legal in SEVERAL states and provinces and this clearly is not happening in those locations. You are not a hunting psychologist. You are not quoting statistics. You are arguing
based on emotion. Nothing more. Stick to facts, stick to the context of the thread and understand that you are arguing with people that actually have experience with the subject matter.
 
chuck nelson said:
What a dumb statement. I mean come on. We have established that the 223 is already legal in SEVERAL states and provinces and this clearly is not happening in those locations. You are not a hunting psychologist. You are not quoting statistics. You are arguing
based on emotion. Nothing more. Stick to facts, stick to the context of the thread and understand that you are arguing with people that actually have experience with the subject matter.
Click to expand...

You are making assumptions... .22 cal CF is legal here for big game... and I did not say that I do not have experience.
You don't have to be a psychologist to be an observer of human nature as it "applies specifically to THIS subject."

Dumb statement... laughing...
 
hoytcanon said:
You are making assumptions... .22 cal CF is legal here for big game... and I did not say that I do not have experience.
You don't have to be a psychologist to be an observer of human nature as it "applies specifically to THIS subject."

Dumb statement... laughing...
Click to expand...


So what is your experience with the 223? Maybe start there instead of guessing what ammunition people might buy.
 
chuck nelson said:
So what is your experience with the 223? Maybe start there instead of guessing what ammunition people might buy.
Click to expand...

I owe you nothing, Chuck... this isn't the schoolyard and your d!ck measuring doesn't fly with guys wearing "big boy pants." This is a place of opinion... I offered mine, based on "my experience" and "my belief." Nothing offered here has altered my "opinion." Have a great night.
 
hoytcanon said:
I owe you nothing, Chuck... this isn't the schoolyard and your d!ck measuring doesn't fly with guys wearing "big boy pants." This is a place of opinion... I offered mine, based on "my experience" and "my belief." Nothing offered here has altered my "opinion." Have a great night.
Click to expand...

And now the personal vile insults start as usual.
 
I've wounded enough coyotes with a 75 gr bullet from a 223 to know that there is no way I'd consider using it on open country deer.
Pic for your pleasure
pFOXJY0l.jpg
 
Then why act like a cry baby pretending that you have been insulted? There is no right answer, no laws are being changed as a result of this thread. Go with it. Like most everyone else.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom