G19X is HERE!!!!

Watching the early video reviews of the G19 gen5, which I take it this 19X is a colour variant of, I didn't like the idea of the new design ambidextrous slide releases, which stick out a fair bit and on both sides, like little wings. Therefore, I got a G19 gen4 and we're very happy together.

Imagine me and you, I do
I think about you day and night
It's only right
To think about the gun you love
And hold it tight
So happy together



LOL, and don't sue me, Turtles.
 
Last edited:
Epoxy7 the two I saw left the shooter with brass still in his hand after surgery. Apparently there were some pieces to close to nerves to be removed surgically. I suspect this type of injury is more common then either of us think. There is no reason I can think of to use the method to unload your pistol.

I just got back from the WA IDPA State match (As the CSO on one stage I unloaded 174 Shooters}. Of those using this method I would estimate 80% of the shooters covered the ejection port with their weak hand while pulling the slide back. I also suspect, if you asked them, other than those who attempt to grab the cartridge as it ejects, would claim their hand did not cover the port.

I posted this picture, aside from a retort to AB, on the assumption the thread is being read by enthusiastic Glock shooters, some of whom may just be starting out and may not have been "trained" well enough to avoid covering the ejection port while emulating those who apparently have.

Personally, I do not teach this method primarily because I recognize the potential potential needless risk the new shooter is exposed to. I am not sure why the method is taught.

Take Care

Bob

Fair enough.

I have no doubt it has happened but I had never heard of it before.

I can state why this method is taught. It's a gross motor skill vs trying to hit the slide lock. When your heart rate is over 200 bpm and you're jacked up on adrenaline in a life/death situation you don't want to be relying on trying to activate a slide lock. The slide lock is faster, but the clamshell is more reliable. Now add in if you've been hit and are bleeding, sweat all over your hands, wearing thicker gloves or if it's wet out and the gun is slick.

There is a video in one of the other threads with a US police officer engaging in a mobile shoot out and then at the end with the confrontation. Not Canadian police procedure but it does show a few interesting things. First he fumbled the mag change but did the clamshell overhand rack perfectly while engaged. Again gross motor skills.

Someone else on this thread made an excellent point with competitors, military , police and civilians technique argument. It's true. Different purposes, situations and even equipment in some cases. Which is better? Depends.
 
Fair enough.

I have no doubt it has happened but I had never heard of it before.

I can state why this method is taught. It's a gross motor skill vs trying to hit the slide lock. When your heart rate is over 200 bpm and you're jacked up on adrenaline in a life/death situation you don't want to be relying on trying to activate a slide lock. The slide lock is faster, but the clamshell is more reliable. Now add in if you've been hit and are bleeding, sweat all over your hands, wearing thicker gloves or if it's wet out and the gun is slick.

There is a video in one of the other threads with a US police officer engaging in a mobile shoot out and then at the end with the confrontation. Not Canadian police procedure but it does show a few interesting things. First he fumbled the mag change but did the clamshell overhand rack perfectly while engaged. Again gross motor skills.

Someone else on this thread made an excellent point with competitors, military , police and civilians technique argument. It's true. Different purposes, situations and even equipment in some cases. Which is better? Depends.


Where I see it more often is when shooters are unloading and showing clear at the end of IDPA and IPSC stages. There is just no reason for doing the clam method. I spoke to a recently retired US Army Special Forces Colonel and he stated about as clearly as he could that it was not taught in his Units as a method of loading/unloading his gun. If it sets up the potential for injury I can't see it having much benefit for the Mllitary or LEO market either. I have yet to see any meaningful application of the use of the clam shell method to unload a gun or charge it from slide lock. Surely, if it is not taught in US Special Forces where the need to know is somewhat higher or where pressure of competition is at its' highest, than why is not considered so important for enthusiastic amateurs playing games. The gross vs fine argument seems to fall to a canard. Where is the evidence aside from those who simply repeat what someone else has said.

I can't imagine a situation where stress would be much higher than competing in Steel, IPSC or IDPA at the highest level where winning can come down to tenths of seconds.

Clearing a jam using the tap/rap method is a whole different issue. Bring the hand over to knock a stove piped cartridge aside and completing the racking of the slide in the same motion is a different skill requirement than simply completing a slide lock reload or simply unloading the gun off the clock. As inept as my athletic skills are, hitting the slide release using a 1911, CZ M&P or PPQ has never failed me in thousands of attempts in competition or practice. In the last 20 odd years you could count the number of times I have dealt with a stove pipe jam on your one hand. I can only recall one.If you look long enough you can find examples of just about anything on Youtube. Watch any video of Vogel shooting a match and you will see his use of fine motor skills every time he completes a reload from slide lock. I would be surprised if an Officer who has not done a reload since his last Qualification manages even realized his gun was empty...I have watched their Qualifications in action. I would suggest it has more to lack of training than any deficiencies in the use of gross vs fine motor skills. BTW if you want to see how fast you can do a mag release try the earlier version of the PPQ with the mag release paddles along the side of the trigger guard. Walther has dropped their use due to the unwillingness of US shooters to embrace something new. I understand those who actually own the guns seem have embraced the paddles. The claim they were even faster than pushing the button of the more traditional placement. Who knew? Is pulling the trigger on a firearm a gross or fine motor skill requirement?

I am somewhat skeptical of the fine vs gross argument. We have been working with our thumbs and fingers since our ancestors left the sea for land.

Take Care

Bob
 
...
I can't imagine a situation where stress would be much higher than competing in Steel, IPSC or IDPA at the highest level where winning can come down to tenths of seconds...

I stopped reading after that that sentence. You do things your way, let the rest of us do it how we've been trained.

So is my G19X here yet?
 
Can we please stop comparing competition shooting to tactical shooting. It's the same difference as figure skating and hockey.
 
Can we please stop comparing competition shooting to tactical shooting. It's the same difference as figure skating and hockey.

Nobody has to my knowledge. There is competition shooting and there is whatever the Military does with handguns...I suspect as little as possible for most involved. I have no idea what the zombie chasers do...nor do I care. Some here, want to be able to be proficient enough to handle four legged threats as well as to be able to play the games.

Blowing holes in ones own body parts is something we do our best to avoid. Risking ones body parts needlessly seems to me a bit stupid. My experience tells me my fine motor skills worked just fine under extreme pressure. Sleeping afterwords...not so much.

Boossted you do know some hockey players hire figure skating coaches to help them skate faster.

Take Care

Bob
 
Well, Bob, mine just arrived, so prepare to have your butt kicked by it! And I'll be doing an over-hand slide release just to annoy you! :p

Just remember John's experience. You can ride in the back of my Tacoma if necessary. I don't want any blood on my seats. LOL See you next week. We should be home on Monday. I will have to try your new Glock. There were quite a few G19's at the match. Only a handful of 34's which surprised me. There were noticeably more 320's and PPQ's. The current IPSC Revolver World Champion Micheal Poggie was there. I shot with him two years ago in the rain at the State match. Needless to say he has won the WA State Match for the past three years....handily.

Take Care

Bob
 
Where I see it more often is when shooters are unloading and showing clear at the end of IDPA and IPSC stages. There is just no reason for doing the clam method. I spoke to a recently retired US Army Special Forces Colonel and he stated about as clearly as he could that it was not taught in his Units as a method of loading/unloading his gun. If it sets up the potential for injury I can't see it having much benefit for the Mllitary or LEO market either. I have yet to see any meaningful application of the use of the clam shell method to unload a gun or charge it from slide lock. Surely, if it is not taught in US Special Forces where the need to know is somewhat higher or where pressure of competition is at its' highest, than why is not considered so important for enthusiastic amateurs playing games. The gross vs fine argument seems to fall to a canard. Where is the evidence aside from those who simply repeat what someone else has said.

I can't imagine a situation where stress would be much higher than competing in Steel, IPSC or IDPA at the highest level where winning can come down to tenths of seconds.
That's nice Bob, your opinion and the opinion of one SF guy does not validate your point. There are far more people using and preaching the overhand method than not. That would generally be folks who kill or killed people for a living. And contrary to what you believe, being shot at is far far more stessful than any gamer event you could ever imagine. From my own experience with force on force a competitive match has zero induced stress. I can't even imagine the stress where a poor choice could end your life.
Clearing a jam using the tap/rap method is a whole different issue. Bring the hand over to knock a stove piped cartridge aside and completing the racking of the slide in the same motion is a different skill requirement than simply completing a slide lock reload or simply unloading the gun off the clock. As inept as my athletic skills are, hitting the slide release using a 1911, CZ M&P or PPQ has never failed me in thousands of attempts in competition or practice. In the last 20 odd years you could count the number of times I have dealt with a stove pipe jam on your one hand. I can only recall one.If you look long enough you can find examples of just about anything on Youtube. Watch any video of Vogel shooting a match and you will see his use of fine motor skills every time he completes a reload from slide lock. I would be surprised if an Officer who has not done a reload since his last Qualification manages even realized his gun was empty...I have watched their Qualifications in action. I would suggest it has more to lack of training than any deficiencies in the use of gross vs fine motor skills. BTW if you want to see how fast you can do a mag release try the earlier version of the PPQ with the mag release paddles along the side of the trigger guard. Walther has dropped their use due to the unwillingness of US shooters to embrace something new. I understand those who actually own the guns seem have embraced the paddles. The claim they were even faster than pushing the button of the more traditional placement. Who knew? Is pulling the trigger on a firearm a gross or fine motor skill requirement?
It's actually the TAP RACK method, not sure if rapping would make any difference. Clearing a stovepipe does not require you to touch the empty/stuck casing. Simply apply the TAP RACK and it will clear itself.

Using the slide lock on your guns with HUGE slide lock levers has never failed you. That would be under conditions of very low stress or no stress and likely under near ideal physiological, psychological and meteorological conditions. Not even close to the same set of circumstances as MIL or LEO gunfights. Does your method work on all semi autos and just as reliably?


I am somewhat skeptical of the fine vs gross argument. We have been working with our thumbs and fingers since our ancestors left the sea for land.
The common misconception around gross vs fine motor skills is the inability to comprehend the data. No one says your fine motor skills are absent. What is being said is that your fine motor skills are DIMINISHED or REDUCED, making things much more difficult to execute. Gross motor skills as the name implies requires less mental and physical dexterity to accomplish and are therefore more reliable when under extreme stress.

Take Care

Bob
In the RED
I stopped reading after that that sentence. You do things your way, let the rest of us do it how we've been trained.

So is my G19X here yet?

Agreed, but I'll try and explain it for others. :cheers:

Nobody has to my knowledge. There is competition shooting and there is whatever the Military does with handguns...I suspect as little as possible for most involved. I have no idea what the zombie chasers do...nor do I care. Some here, want to be able to be proficient enough to handle four legged threats as well as to be able to play the games.

Blowing holes in ones own body parts is something we do our best to avoid. Risking ones body parts needlessly seems to me a bit stupid. My experience tells me my fine motor skills worked just fine under extreme pressure. Sleeping afterwords...not so much.

Boossted you do know some hockey players hire figure skating coaches to help them skate faster.

Take Care

Bob

Your fine motor skills were far from being under and serious pressure. And the comparison was between figure skating(ice dancing:p) and hockey. It was not a comparison about skating skills.
 
I was hoping mine would arrive today. Looks like Monday.

So for those of us living vicariously, how is the trigger etc? Need some more details!

Trigger is pretty nice, haven't done too much "dry firing", fit & finish is excellent, on another note, put it side by side my Gen 2 G19, and can't believe how little difference there is in the barrels.
Any reasonable person would "roll there eyes" LOL. Cheers
 
Trigger is pretty nice, haven't done too much "dry firing", fit & finish is excellent, on another note, put it side by side my Gen 2 G19, and can't believe how little difference there is in the barrels.
Any reasonable person would "roll there eyes" LOL. Cheers

Sounds good! I'm going shooting tomorrow. I'll give my PPQ pistols a workout while I wait.... I was hoping to be taking the Glock out as well, but I guess patience is a virtue.
 
Every page I see them on, as well as Bullseye, told me they come with Glock night sights. The price tag is on par with that idea.

The civilian sale versions likely do. Rampart seems to be willing to sell a Glock with whatever Glock option you're willing to pay for.
 
Back
Top Bottom