Wk180-c nylon bushing failure?

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supahdave

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For all current owners of wk180’s, just wondering If any of you have had Issues with the nylon guide bushing that the gas piston rides through melting due to doing a few mag dumps? Watched a video by wolverine supplies where John mentioned he had melted a bushing due to “abuse”of the rifle. I am considering buying one and of course wouldn’t be doing that with mine constantly but once in a while would be fun. Also say I did a course where I’d be putting a somewhat high volume of rounds down range in a day or did a 3 gun comp- would there be a possibility of that bushing melting or cracking due to constant heat and then have a bent up piston stuck in the receiver?

This is the only beef I have with the design of the gun. Any other semi auto of military pedigree doesn’t have a failure point in a crucial part of its operating system like that. Not sure if I trust a $.02 plastic bushing... thoughts?
 
This is also the first I've heard of such things. Do they have a bushing where the piston goes through the barrel trunion at the front of the reciever? If so, you'd melt your barrel before that got hot enough to damage a high temp nylon, if there even is one there.
 
The purpose of the nylon is to keep the steel rod centered in its travel and from rubbing back and forth against the aluminum. The original ar180’s are steel correct? Is there any chance of some of the spent gas that pushes the piston back spraying at the bushing or is it far enough away.
 
Armedsask said:
This is also the first I've heard of such things. Do they have a bushing where the piston goes through the barrel trunion at the front of the reciever? If so, you'd melt your barrel before that got hot enough to damage a high temp nylon, if there even is one there.
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Yes, that is exactly where the bushing is. I believe Wolverine Supplies mentioned that guns will be shipping with a replacement bushing, so that in the event of a theoretical failure, the user can change it out. If you check through the Wolverine technical thread, I do believe it is mentioned there.
 
Nylon not plastic, is often used in these applications. We included a spare as we thought it would be a "nice touch" not really that we expected it to be required. I melted this bushing in the "dog" a long time ago through abuse, I haven't bothered to replace it yet and she is still running strong! Just give her a drop of oil and carry on. Melt the nylon and I know you have been abusing the rifle, not that this is a problem as the WK180-C can take it. :)
 
supahdave said:
For all current owners of wk180’s, just wondering If any of you have had Issues with the nylon guide bushing that the gas piston rides through melting due to doing a few mag dumps? Watched a video by wolverine supplies where John mentioned he had melted a bushing due to “abuse”of the rifle. I am considering buying one and of course wouldn’t be doing that with mine constantly but once in a while would be fun. Also say I did a course where I’d be putting a somewhat high volume of rounds down range in a day or did a 3 gun comp- would there be a possibility of that bushing melting or cracking due to constant heat and then have a bent up piston stuck in the receiver?

This is the only beef I have with the design of the gun. Any other semi auto of military pedigree doesn’t have a failure point in a crucial part of its operating system like that. Not sure if I trust a $.02 plastic bushing... thoughts?
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I wouldn't worry about it too much. I doubt anyone will melt one unless they set up 20 fully loaded pistol mags then dump them as fast as they can reload the rifle. 3-gun and training courses don't ever ask you to dump a couple hundred rounds in a couple minutes.

Mr Wolverine said:
Nylon not plastic, is often used in these applications. We included a spare as we thought it would be a "nice touch" not really that we expected it to be required. I melted this bushing in the "dog" a long time ago through abuse, I haven't bothered to replace it yet and she is still running strong! Just give her a drop of oil and carry on. Melt the nylon and I know you have been abusing the rifle, not that this is a problem as the WK180-C can take it. :)
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So shooting it rapidly is abuse? Or are you saying that something like doing 100 mag dumps as fast as you can reload is abuse?

driller212 said:
No issues here after a few hundred rounds. Its a keeper. Don't hesitate to get one.
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Lol, 100 rounds? I should hope there are no issues after 100 rounds.

Bring it out to my place one of these days, be neat to compare it side by side with a 180B-2.
 
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Mr Wolverine said:
Nylon not plastic, is often used in these applications. We included a spare as we thought it would be a "nice touch" not really that we expected it to be required. I melted this bushing in the "dog" a long time ago through abuse, I haven't bothered to replace it yet and she is still running strong! Just give her a drop of oil and carry on. Melt the nylon and I know you have been abusing the rifle, not that this is a problem as the WK180-C can take it. :)
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Like any material, the amount of abuse it can take will depend on its molecular structure and application. Properly engineered, it will do the job fine. Glocks being a fine example where plastic rules.
As Mr. Wolverine states, the part has been degraded and did not fail (still works on origianal gun). Kinda reminds me of the steel vs. plastic trigger guard on Remington 870s. A non-issue for me - a major faux pas for others....

L
 
cr5 said:
Lol, 100 rounds? I should hope there are no issues after 100 rounds.

Bring it out to my place one of these days, be neat to compare it side by side with a 180B-2.
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About 400 rounds so far Yea, but just answering the OPs question.

Yea I would be down for that.
 
Mr Wolverine said:
Nylon not plastic, is often used in these applications. We included a spare as we thought it would be a "nice touch" not really that we expected it to be required. I melted this bushing in the "dog" a long time ago through abuse, I haven't bothered to replace it yet and she is still running strong! Just give her a drop of oil and carry on. Melt the nylon and I know you have been abusing the rifle, not that this is a problem as the WK180-C can take it. :)
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Well that’s re assuring to hear that it will still operate with a degraded bushing, can more of these be purchased separately or as part of a parts kit in the future? I intend on keeping my rifles for a very long time and don’t want to have to worry about finding one-off parts 20 years down the road
 
supahdave said:
For all current owners of wk180’s, just wondering If any of you have had Issues with the nylon guide bushing that the gas piston rides through melting due to doing a few mag dumps? Watched a video by wolverine supplies where John mentioned he had melted a bushing due to “abuse”of the rifle. I am considering buying one and of course wouldn’t be doing that with mine constantly but once in a while would be fun. Also say I did a course where I’d be putting a somewhat high volume of rounds down range in a day or did a 3 gun comp- would there be a possibility of that bushing melting or cracking due to constant heat and then have a bent up piston stuck in the receiver?

This is the only beef I have with the design of the gun. Any other semi auto of military pedigree doesn’t have a failure point in a crucial part of its operating system like that. Not sure if I trust a $.02 plastic bushing... thoughts?
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EVERY other semi auto of ANY pedigree has a failure point. When the gas rings on an AR failure, it won't cycle properly. These rings cost pennies to make. Same for the gas. Springs are a critical component of recoil systems and trigger control groups, and can easily cause a failure of the whole system. Any mechanical system that is abused and operated outside its normally operating conditions, temperature, pressure, duration,etc, will eventually fail. All machines require maintenance. There isn't a firearm on the planet that can sustain unlimited rapid fire without consequence or eventual failure.

Believe me you would rather the 0.02C part be the first to fail, rather than the much more expensive receiver or barrel. And just because its a two cent part, doesn't mean they cut a corner on quality.

supahdave said:
Well that’s re assuring to hear that it will still operate with a degraded bushing, can more of these be purchased separately or as part of a parts kit in the future? I intend on keeping my rifles for a very long time and don’t want to have to worry about finding one-off parts 20 years down the road
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Nylon is a pretty easy material to work with. Long after everyone has forgotten the name Wolverine Supplies, machining a new bushing for this rifle will be a simple task.
 
Not all plastics are equal. There are many plastics that are superior to metals in certain applications. The problem is the average person only has experience with cheap consumer plastic that breaks easily.

Not sure what type of nylon they used, but Nylon 6 melts at 215° C. As indicated by Wolverine, I'm sure it will be just fine.
 
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Seriously. It's literally what's used as guiding for metal chains in oil. Timing chain guide in millions of engines? Every industrial machine with friction points uses some type of UHMW plastic as a friction reducer.

I have zero qualms about the nylon bushing in my wk180

supahdave said:
Would be nice to go bronze, I question the longevity of any plastic with friction and solvents/oil
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Red_Liner740 said:
Seriously. It's literally what's used as guiding for metal chains in oil. Timing chain guide in millions of engines? Every industrial machine with friction points uses some type of UHMW plastic as a friction reducer.

I have zero qualms about the nylon bushing in my wk180
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Exactly, Lots of people out there that don't understand that not all "plastics" are created equal. Don't like plastic on guns because they think it's all Chinese toy quality plastic.
 
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