I have a 102 and stag 10. I don’t own a MH but have had plenty of trigger time on them to say stag is the winner without question. I will say the 102 is better than what some would like you to believe, but not good enough to suggest its better than the stag.
Stag-10 vs Modern Hunter
- Thread starter JesseSVTJaymes
- Start date
Aprilia Man
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canadian "WET" Coast (Raincouver)
If the Liberals win again on 2019 ..... It will be RIP to all handguns and Semi-Auto rifles including the MH, BC102, and STAG-10 
For when the Phased Plasma Rifles in the 40 watt range kills the Stag 10.
If the Liberals win again on 2019 ..... It will be RIP to all handguns and Semi-Auto rifles including the MH, BC102, and STAG-10
LOL
not a snowballs chance in hell
this illigitimate government can make whatever bullsh*te laws they want , and they can go ##### themselves while they are at it. What's mine is mine.
No I didn't miss your point. I know exactly what your post is all about. Dr. Hunter provided an excellent post that addressed this. As you seem to have missed his point completely, let me make this simple. I'm a consumer, not a friend, family member or employee of any of these companies. If a product doesn't live up to expectations, is billed as something it's not, or just isn't competitive in the market then it's either going to die off or be replaced. If a company isn't competitive they adjust or their sales slog down. Contrary to the continued attempts to label this as a "personal issue", it isn't. It's a simple matter of economics. Businesses don't run based on altruism, they run on whether or not they are viable. The market dictates this. It's much harder when there isn't a monopoly. That's how it goes. The reality is two products have displaced this one. Competition is great for the consumer, not so great for those with a monopoly. Again it has nothing to do with being "personal" or anyone's feelings. We are't buying used cars here. The emotional appeal doesn't work so well. Labeling people who disagree and have voted with their money as "haters" just further enforces the fact that it's not about facts. Especially when those people have even stated the shortcomings of the product they bought along with it now being obsolete due to the new product. I'm not seeing "haters". I'm seeing informed consumers who are't buying into the irrational fan base of any product.
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Michael Dempster
Regular
Their poor performance aside, I think some would prefer not to purchase from stolen valour types like the famous Sniper of Viet Nam.
i agree, f uc k you trudeau and all liberal supporters on this site.
I am not going to say what I will do, but I guess the ones here that know me understand.
Sunchild2071
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Glen Park, AB
So I posed this in another thread.
Do you objectively believe that STAG gace 2 sh!ts about the Canadian market in NR 308, before ATRS and NEA?BCL opened a door? Or that they even give a crap now?
Unlikely. R&D to break down the door, left it for an established an stable manufacturer to come in with little skin in the game. Yes, capitalism and free market, are what they are. However, simple economics work for the seller, not the buyer.
When the big players can smash out the small but innovative players, your firearms dollar won't be worth a plug nickel. NR tax will be something you wish for. Simple economics, also. The goal of capitalism - once you can destroy the competition, and corner a market, then let the consumers suffer the consequence. Every capitalists ultimate goal is monopoly, in the end, or they just aren't a solid capitalist.
ATRS and BCL are not trainwreck garbage, by any measure. Consumer choice seems to prove that point. Both are still alive and viable.
And there is only 1 first place. Second place is the first loser, and the rest fall in line. Is STAG first place (overall)?
I'll support Canadian product over US product every choice I can, and the smaller guy over the big ones, as well.
For the record, I own 3 102s, no ATRS offerings. My 102 are all running without issue, combined around >4000 rounds between the three of them.
How many of the STAG 10s are out there right now? Anybody firing them? Any range reports? I have been looking, but may be missing them.
In time, another new shiny thing will come out, and the STAG will follow in line with the MH and 102. After all, second place is the first loser.
Run what ya brung, nuff said.
This is pinned at the top of the Main Battle Rifle forum. https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1748481-Stag-10-build-and-range-review
I believe the Canadian Company Arms East who put in the work to get the non restricted frt status gives a damn. A company I recall buying my first AR15 from about 12 years ago. A Canadian distributor for Stag Arms as well as other products. I give them full credit for thinking it through and doing the paperwork to expand the sales of their Canadian firearms store. The same store that has been selling reasonably priced decent ARs to Canadians when AR15 prices here were ridiculous. They have a long history of disproving your theory and continue to do so with this new product.
Those of us that have them will likely keep them as long as they do the job. Train wreck, no. Full of compromises, yes. Would O buy a BCL if buying right now? Nope. I’ll keep my bcl but I just ordered up all the parts for a Stag 10.
Pretty much Stag is the number 1 choice right now for all the reasons already mentioned in this thread.
I support the Canadian firearm companies who provide the best products at the best prices. Doesn’t matter to me if they make the product themselves or not. They have businesses to build and families to support just like the manufacturers.
A fair number as it’s the same gun as sold in the USA. Plus a few reports already on this site.
Could be. If it offers more sought after features, same or better quality and a competitive price. If not then probably not for a fairly long time. Or until the competition modified their products and or prices to remain competitive.
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Sunchild2071
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Glen Park, AB
My search skills suck. Thanks for that.
I think it is how I worded that. We are on the same page here regarding the canadian retailer. STAG is the only one I think doesn't give a crap about us.
Damn typing on the internet.
Aprilia Man
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canadian "WET" Coast (Raincouver)
I'm totally with you guys .... really hoping for a Cons win on 2019. At least the Cons will leave us legal owners alone.
Couldn't agree with you more 45ACPKING.
Frankly, that's what guns are for when it comes right down to it.
My factory bcl 102 was decent but now all that's left is the safety and mag release but I modified to my taste. My other bcl started off as just a reciever set and is now shooting sub 0.5 moa. Both are keepers. I had a modern hunter and it cost more than either of my bcls and both only have high end parts. I really wanted to like the modern hunter and put in alot of work to try to get it to but it shot 2 to 2.5 moa which my factory bcl did and it wasn't reliable. I usually don't sell my firearms but that was one that I'm happy to have gotten rid of at a significant loss. Although now they seem unsellable unless at a really severe discount. They're not even worth the sum of their parts at least with my bcls I can take them part and sell stuff off and likely only lose a bit.
I skipped the whole stag rifle since I have been addicted to building. I have 1 set on order but parts for 3 so need to get my hands on two more sets.
I skipped the whole stag rifle since I have been addicted to building. I have 1 set on order but parts for 3 so need to get my hands on two more sets.
I don't see it as being a hater, I wish the best on every one of them and am happy to support a Canadian company and I will shop local before looking outward but I refuse to accept sub standard products just because they were built in Canada.
If they want my business they need to build a quality product that has been properly tested and is reliable from day one. There is no excuse for making the consumer the beta tester, if it's not ready for market then maybe they should have kept their mouths shut and not tried to build up a bunch of hype and run up a pre-order list before there was even a viable product to sell. They make these announcements and people get excited which drives up the demand even more then the manufacturer ends up being rushed to release a product that was months away from actually being ready.
Then we get stuff like the SLR where a bunch of guys get them with poor anodizing and holes that are too small making it difficult to assemble.
The same has happened with the WK180, I've been reading lately about the Wylde chamber being an issue because they were rushed and sourced a few reamers from different places and now some of them seem to have a short throat leading to increased pressures with certain factory loads.
In the case of BCL if they could build their rifles consistently and didn't have such a high failure rate I would own one. Same goes for the other companies, I never do pre-orders because I want to see what I'm paying for before my money is placed on the table.
Sure, all the manufacturers are capable of putting out a nice product as is evidenced by a bunch of the rifles guys have shown pics of and done range reports with, I'm not going to try to discredit their positive experience but instead try to show them that just because they got a good one doesn't mean everyone did and in some cases there are simply too many bad reports for me to feel that manufacturer really gives a rats ass about anything other than making the sale and moving on. If they cared about the customer or future sales they would be putting out a quality product 99% of the time. Every manufacturer has the odd part or product slip through but sometimes it just seems hard to believe how many negative reports you hear in the first few weeks after a product is released.
They are shooting themselves in the foot, every negative experience someone posts on here scares a few people away who were otherwise on the fence and just waiting to hear a review before spending the money.
My holding off on purchases based on hype and pre-orders has saved me a lot of trouble and money over the last few years. I just don't understand why every time a new rifle is announced everyone goes bats#!t crazy and starts throwing money at the retailer so they can be first in line. It's not like there aren't a bunch of good non restricted options available right now, I have four non restricted 223 class semi's and have no problem sitting back and waiting to see if it's worth buying the latest and greatest before actually buying it.
Anyway, I blame the manufacturer for most of the negative comments they receive, if they had built it right the first time 99% of the time they would make their millions off us but when they put out bad products and customers have to pay to ship it back just to get it working how it should have from day one that person and everyone they tell will be apprehensive about buying one after that.
The only bad part about this is when you do get the real haters that just need to bash a product from a certain manufacturer regardless of what it is or if it actually has issues.
What are we supposed to be talking about again?
Oh ya, I vote Modern Hunter all the way. I've had a great experience with mine so far and it will be staying in my collection for a long time. They all have strengths and weaknesses but I really don't need another 308 class NR semi (already have 3). If I was starting with zero NR semi auto's I'd probably go with the Stag, just because it can be built cheaper and should be just as accurate with the right barrel.
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I was originally onboard with the modern hunter but at the time the wife and I were renting and saving to buy a home.... which after a failed rent to buy that we never should have signed on to and the legal battle we had to press on the owner/landlord to recoup from his scam..... I had to back away from the ATRS offering as it was out of my budget at the time.
It boils down to what I need and what I'm willing to pay to have that and now that the home purchase is done I'm looking at the AR-10 style rifle seriously now and getting on with a build.
I want mine for hunting, period. It isn't going to be a range rifle or target shooting rifle, it will be a tool in my hunting gear collection. I see the ATRS as a bit of a ferrari rifle in that the cost to build one is higher than what is now availlable. Will I get a better rifle going with ATRS .... I can't say although if it was a bolt gun I would not hesitate. So I'm left with a decision and as far as the budget goes, and now that the stag-10 is available, it's the route I've chosen to take. Not to snub any canadian manufacturers , just because in dollars and sense the stag is the better option for me.
The other offering for the AR-10 type rifle in canada isn't one i'm willing to take a chance on after reading thru the great many posts on the subject. I don't consider that hating..... it's called being an informed consumer
It boils down to what I need and what I'm willing to pay to have that and now that the home purchase is done I'm looking at the AR-10 style rifle seriously now and getting on with a build.
I want mine for hunting, period. It isn't going to be a range rifle or target shooting rifle, it will be a tool in my hunting gear collection. I see the ATRS as a bit of a ferrari rifle in that the cost to build one is higher than what is now availlable. Will I get a better rifle going with ATRS .... I can't say although if it was a bolt gun I would not hesitate. So I'm left with a decision and as far as the budget goes, and now that the stag-10 is available, it's the route I've chosen to take. Not to snub any canadian manufacturers , just because in dollars and sense the stag is the better option for me.
The other offering for the AR-10 type rifle in canada isn't one i'm willing to take a chance on after reading thru the great many posts on the subject. I don't consider that hating..... it's called being an informed consumer
Pretty much agreed with most of the first part of your post. In truth though until the last paragraph I thought you were talking about both the BCL 102 and the Modern Hunter. As it seemed appropriate for either product.
I believe that's a legitimate fear of Stag 10 and BCL 102 owners after accurizing their rifles.
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You know as well as I do that with this platform as long as the upper receiver is built well and provides a nice bed for the barrel that the choice of barrel is going to decide almost entirely how accurate the rifle is.
A nice trigger can help but with proper technique you can make some very nice groups with a crappy milspec trigger. After that it's just a matter of mounting an optic that allows for excellent sight picture for precise aiming and finding ammo the barrel likes.
Add Shooter skills to the mix and accuracy can go anywhere which is why I think we've had so many negative accuracy reviews on rifles that on paper should perform much better. Money doesn't buy skill unless it's spent on training, simply buying a sweet rifle doesn't guarantee results. Most people don't realize how much harder it is to shoot a semi as accurately as an equally capable bolt gun.
What I know is there were accuracy concerns from the start. I know those of us that said something wasn't right, received a ton of hatred and crap. Then it was found the first 75 needed the cam pin modified as it was causing accuracy issues. Still the accuracy reports looked wrong. Again more "hater" etc labeling. Then it was found that the Fortis handguard was flexing and touching the gas block. So accuracy issues. No apologies from the fan base or the fairly brutal crud many had to endure for stating what was clear to anyone else. Now, I mention that it still looks like something isn't right. It's the same old song and dance. It's the shooter, it's the ammo, it's el nino.
With the 308 I get that there are a lot of variables. Some people are bound and determined to try and reinvent the wheel. So ok, that could be a factor. But with the 6.5 CM, all barrels are 1:8 from the factory, all ammo is designed for this twist rate and they even list the powder along with projectiles. So there are a few variables taken out.
6.5 CM:
BCL 102 , people are getting .5 moa 5 round groups or in some cases less. As expected for an AR308 rifle.
MH, people are trying to get 1 moa. Or with one .70-.75 moa 5 round group followed by an excellent 4 round group and a brutal flier. The flier was an issue with the 308 groups. Groups for these rifles show 3 rounds is decent but good luck getting 5.
I really think something is wrong with the MH, design wise. something or somethings just aren't working right. They don't seem to be shooting like an AR308/AR10 should be, with the type of parts and equipment people are pairing them up with. I've seen a fair number of nicely done up 6.5 CM MH in the EE back a ways. Checks on them and they were precision shooters selling them off after 100 rounds. A semi auto isn't that hard to shoot. There is something not right. I don't know what it is. I suspect some sort of geometry issue, barrel extension, chamber etc issue. I didn't know what it was the first two times, but I sure as heck knew something wasn't right and that was even eventually supported by the manufacturer addressing the issues, twice!
I'm glad you like your rifle and are happy with it. Honestly I consider the BCL 102 taking a risk. However I consider the MH flushing my money. Now with the Stag 10, it's not even a tough choice. Stag 10 is the current best option.
