Cast in the 9.3 x 57 Mauser

[10x]

I am currently sorting out a Husqvarna L46 (model 96) in 9.3 x 57.
I have the 285 grain NOE mold and I am sizing to 0.368" Bullets chamber nicely .
My best group so far is the minimum (from Handloader magazine) Load Using IMR 4064.

Is there any one else who casts and shoots this remarkable old cartridge?

 

[303EppsFan]

I haven't tried cast for my Husqvarna but look forward to hearing how it works out for you.
On the jacketed front mine gave so so accuracy with Prvi bullets but does extremely well with Speer 270 gr HotCor.

 

[10x]

I haven't tried cast for my Husqvarna but look forward to hearing how it works out for you.
On the jacketed front mine gave so so accuracy with Prvi bullets but does extremely well with Speer 270 gr HotCor.

So far I have the bedding sorted out.
Cast bullets using Unique, WC735, and IMR 4064 give groups of ranging from 2" to just under 1.5 inches at 50 meters with an NOE 285 grain gas check mold.
I have cut back the crown about 0.20" and will do a final true on the muzzle later today.
Group size has dropped from over 6" at 50 meters with the new stock and bedding.


The bullets are NOE 285 grain with a gator gas check. I have tried them with Lee Liquid alox - about a 2.5" group at 50m using Unique,
And with powder coat. Gas check installed after powder coating.
I have a batch of bullets that I sized to 0.368" and put the gas check on then powder coated, These need to be sized again as they are tough seat in the case.
I will be sizing the next batch to 0.366" and then powder coating.


The Hornady dies I use (From Tradex or direct from Horandy) have a sliding bullet seater. It works fine for bullets lubed with lee liquid alox, but the last batch of powder coat are tight in the seater sleeve of the die.
I will be honing out the throat of the seater about 0.0005"


NOE gas check bullets will allow the nose of the bullet to slide into the muzzle with Lee Liquid alox but powder coat adds enough so that the nose of the bullet will not push in without a great deal of force.
A NOE bullet nose sizer may be in my future. How ever the nose of the bullet does not seem to be an issue in the chamber when overall length is 3.25"

Bullets are seated to 3.25" total over length and I have no idea of how far the bullet ogive is the rifling.

I do have 200 Privi bullets and I will be working up a load with these after I get the gun shooting as accurately as possible with cast.
I have found that 42 grains of IMR 4064 gives a 1 3/4" group at 50 meters with the NOE 286 gr Powder coated but I think with load development and patience when I am testing that will tighten up.

Recoil is noticeable with the 285 grain bullet. I would not be shooting this rifle without a recoil pad

I am also going to install a new Leupold one piece scope base. I am not happy with the ease the front ring turned when I installed it. Resistance but not enough to make me happy.
The recoil from this cartridge may change the position of the scope if there is any movement in the mounts.

Hand loader #283 has loads for this cartridge. and the 9.3 x 57 article in that issue is available as a .pdf on line.


If you do go to cast bullets, The NOE 285 grain 3 cavity mold is great, so is the NOE sizing system if you use Lee Liquid Alox or powder coat.

I have a mold coming from accurate in 285 as well
Brass is made up from 8X57 and 30/06 - I keep the sorted and separate. Head stamp is not an issue as there is no way the loaded cartridge will chamber in an '06.
Or an 8X57

I will be working up a load with a chrono graph later this fall.

Any advice or ideas will be gratefully appreciated.

 

[Andy]

I have a few notes from shooting the same bullet (NOE 358009) in my 9.3X57 that I later rechambered to 9.3X62 and then sold.

I had used 358 Win loads as a guide.

With cast bullets, all of my best results have been with powders with Burn Rates at 4198 or faster, and MV's at 2000 fps or slower. That is not to say that good results can't be had otherwise, I just haven't seen them when I tried it.

Unique - Max 15.0 grs - ~ 1450 fps
SR-4759 - 22.0 grs (could go to about 24.0 grs)- ~1600 fps
IMR-4198 - 27.0 grs (could go to about 36.0 grs)- ~1650 fps

SR-4759 is now discontinued, so Alliant 2400 could serve as a good substitute.

 

[10x]

I have a few notes from shooting the same bullet (NOE 358009) in my 9.3X57 that I later rechambered to 9.3X62 and then sold.

I had used 358 Win loads as a guide.

With cast bullets, all of my best results have been with powders with Burn Rates at 4198 or faster, and MV's at 2000 fps or slower. That is not to say that good results can't be had otherwise, i just haven't seen them.

Unique - Max 15.0 grs - ~ 1450 fps
SR-4759 - Max 22.0 grs - ~1600 fps
IMR-4198 - Max 27.0 grs - ~1650 fps

SR-4759 is now discontinued, so Alliant 2400 could serve as a good substitute.

I am not getting spectacular results with unique other than a very nice group at 10 grains and aa 2" Group at 60 meters
SR -4759 is unobtainium here,
I do have a stock of 2400 and I have IMR 4198

I am getting good results with IMR 4064 - got a 1" group with IMR 4064 at 50 meters without trying that hard.
I am going to start out with 30 grains of WC735 and work up to 42 with cast.
I am also going to change out the scope bases and rings as I suspect they may not be adequate.

 

[303EppsFan]

I suspect AA5744 would work well here too. It is not at all position sensitive and works very well in reduced loads and cast bullet situations. I use it in my 45-120 loads and it shoots very well out to 200 yards with a gas check bullet.

 

[jethunter]

I've been shooting M46 Husqvarna with the NOE bullet for 5-6 years. I use IMR4895. 37gr put me a couple inches high at 100 yds using irons. These sights aren't very adjustable so it was easier to match the load to the iron sights than the other way round. I went as high as 45gr but it was so far off the sights I backed off on the load until it lined up. 35gr was giving me sooty necks and shoulders.

I have a scoped M146 (FN98) Husqvarna 9.3x57 that I load much hotter. An earlier thread: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/782903-Cast-bullets-in-a-9-3-x-57

 

[10x]

Consolidating links to other threads on the 9.3x57

https://forums.gunboards.com/showth...t-lead-from-9-3x57&highlight=9.3+cast+bullets

and https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/782903-Cast-bullets-in-a-9-3-x-57


0.366" bullets available from the bullet barn
http://www.thebulletbarn.com/
.
.From Gunboards

13 gr unique = 1250fps
15 gr unique= 1400 fps
42 gr H335 = 1950 fps with some leading
38 gr Imr 3031= 1750 fps
43 gr Imr 3031= 2023 fps with leading

Also from gunboards

Had a good day out at the range with the new to me 146 and some of Lois' cast 9.3 280 gas checked bullets from the bullet barn today, things started off a little rough but got better as the day progressed ( some days I sure dont shoot like I used to)
38.5 grains of IMR 4895 with the bullet barn bullet in resized privi 8mm brass gave an average of 1625 fps with decent ( not great accuracy 4 inches @ 100 yds with open sights)
40 grains of the same provided 1700 fps with greater spreads and poorer accuracy however no leading was noted with either load. I need to do quite a bit more experimenting with other powders and seating depths before I pass judgement on these bullets but things look promising and like other cast bullets in this loading it will probably do quite well at around 14-1500 fps. Played around with a couple of unique loads and found the magic elixer for a good subsonic 280 gr cast grouse and rabbit pounder thats on at 20-25 yards.

I'm starting to drink some of Darryl's kool aid though when it comes to temp sensitive powders, my summertime load of 46.0 grains of H335 in front of a privi 285 was only clocking 1980fps across the chrony today in the 46 instead of its usual 2070-2080, thats a substantial difference and the cases in the model 46 were fairly well smoked as well almost as if the load is too light and the brass isnt expanding enough to grab the chamber wall, I fired 30 of them out of the 46 and all had smoky necks , bodies and around the head, rim of the case. The same rounds fired in the 146 were fine though but the chamber is tighter and the shoulder more pronounced in the 146 by the looks of things. Might be time to try the BLC 2!!

And more from the gunboard forum

I have some recent experience shooting a 280gr gas checked bullet of my design that The Bullet Barn manufactures in British Columbia. See http://www.thebulletbarn.com. I have tried this bullet in three 9.3x57 rifles with similar results. One of my rifles is scoped and has some quite bad scoring about 3 inches back from the muzzle. Surprisingly this seems to have little effect on the results on target. The Bullet Barn casts to Brinell 25. Ballistic coefficient calculates to 0.254 using Precision Ballistic Coefficient Estimator from http://www.uslink.net/~tom1/calcbc/calcbc.htm. I haven't confirmed this BC with any velocity measurements yet. Think I would want to armor the chrony before taking a velocity at range! I haven't ramped velocity up but have tended to stay with loads that are very comfortable to shoot in a recoil sense. Here is a list of a few loads that I have tried thus far:


Powder-- PowderWt-- Velocity
AA5744-- 25gr-- 1450fps
I4895-- 38gr-- 1720fps
I4895-- 40gr-- 1820fps
Unique-- 13.5gr-- 1280fps
Unique-- 14.1gr-- 1367fps
Unique-- 14.6gr-- 1389fps


Also tried 36gr of I3031 which I didn't get around to chronographing yet. The 38gr of I4895 shot 5 into 2” at 100yds from the scoped M46A. The 36gr I3031 looks like it wants to do the same. Overall cartridge length for all loads was 2.937”. Used some Norma brass and re-necked Remington 8mm and didn't notice any consistent velocity differences between them over the low volume shooting done. I think with the Unique I will use a 14gr load as it seemed to shoot a little tighter on the paper. I think the 9.3x57 is a natural for cast bullets and have been reserving the jacketed bullets for the x62. Will have to get the lead after some game one of these days!

 

[jethunter]

One of my projects for this winter is to build a load with D4198.

 

[10x]

One of my projects for this winter is to build a load with D4198.

Do your research and confirm my following opinion.

According to the information I can find 358 Winchester loads are safe in the 9.3 x 57. The slightly larger case of the 9.3 x 57 reduces pressure of the 358 loads to a safe level for the L46 action
https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/9.3x57+Mauser.html
The Lee Loading Handbook offers a load for H4891 and ADI claims their 2207 is similar or the same as H4198. IMR seems to have the same pressures and velocity as H4198.
I would be treating D4198 as a canister equivalent to H4198 and IMR 4198, starting with a load that is 10% lower and carefully working up to max velocity but not to exceed maximum velocity.
A good chronograph is essential to keep track of powder volume to velocity ratios.


I have loaded NOE powder coated gas check with 42 grains of IMR 4064 with no pressure indicators. As well as WC735 (a powder that needs a 5% reduction from H335 loads)
the WC735 load was a 358 Winchester equivalent load

From the Lee loading manual (second edition) for 358 Winchester with the 275 grain bullet.
H4198 (ADI 2207) 33 min (1890 fps) , 37 (2070) max with 285 grain bullet (Lee Reloading manual for H4198

The Lyman #44 manual also has loads for the 357 Winchester with a 275 grain bullet.
The folks I have consulted with who have "Quickload" tell me that according to Quick load these loads are not excessive in the 9.3.


your comments on whether or not D4198 is equivalent to IMR 4198 or H 4198 would be appreciated.

 

[jethunter]

358 Win loads should be an ultra-safe safe starting load for the 9,3x57, if anything it will be on the low side. 358 case cap is 10% less than x57.

D4198 is not exactly equivalent to either the IMR or H varieties. I haven't much experience with D4198 yet but I think starting at 5%-10% below IMR4198 starting load will be good.