Bp substitute question.
- Thread starter Stray03
- Start date
The fellows at my local club shoot BPCR all winter, in most calibers big and small.
I don't recall anyone ever using 'the holy black'.
Corrosion concerns and lengthy clean up are cited as reasons to use the substitutes.
The most commonly seen propellant is the American Pioneer, then Blackhorn 209, then an occasional Triple7 loading.
All shoot cast lead bullets ('boolits' if you want) with plenty of smoke on a cold winter morning - followed by plenty of coffee, then lunch.
Good times.
I don't recall anyone ever using 'the holy black'.
Corrosion concerns and lengthy clean up are cited as reasons to use the substitutes.
The most commonly seen propellant is the American Pioneer, then Blackhorn 209, then an occasional Triple7 loading.
All shoot cast lead bullets ('boolits' if you want) with plenty of smoke on a cold winter morning - followed by plenty of coffee, then lunch.
Good times.
#1bcshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- North Of The DMZ (US border)
Never use substitutes .
Only use the real stuff . Clean up is easy .
Only use the real stuff . Clean up is easy .
I've used both BP and subs (Pyrodex, triple-7). I find they require about the same effort to clean up. Paul A. Matthews wrote in "More How-To's for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle Shooter" about how one of his barrels was ruined when he cleaned with Hoppes No. 9 after shooting with pyrodex. Apparently the small amounts of ammonia in the Hoppes react with the potassium chloride residue of the pyrodex, creating a highly corrosive substance that remained in the barrel.
That's odd. BP cleans with nothing more than H2O, a simple compound found wherever there is a faucet or running/standing water. It is the Subs, according to the mavens on muzzleloadingforum.com and the MLAGB, that needs rapid cleanup becuase of their rather odd chemical makeup. As an aside, how do they justify calling themselves BPCR shooters?
I shoot several Sniders (only with BP) and have the post-shoot cleanup down to a fairly pleasant 15 minute job. The brass expands and seals so well that there is only rarely any fouling on the neck of the cases and no blow-back at all into the breech. Boiling water in the breech end and the bore is like a mirror very soon. I should mention I use only pure beeswax for bullet lube and the bore fouling doesn't appear to increase after the first couple of shots. The originals were noted for being able to shoot hundreds of consecutive rounds without accuracy falling off.
milsurpo
milsurpo
I experimented with 60 gr. Pyrodex .54 pellets rolled with a lubed bullet in my .50 percussion Sharps rifles. Looks like an original rd and handles well compared to a paper cartridge.
However, the erosive effect on the gas plate seemed to be enhanced compared to BP. It also had an odd chemical smell some find offensive.
The biggest issue with using BP in BPCRs is not the rifle clean up, which is easier that with a smokeless rifle, but the brass. If the brass is not cleaned, dried and tumbled ASAP after firing, it can deteriorate very quickly. That is the main objection people have towards BP use in BPCRs.
I also anneal after each firing after reading that shooters like Butch Ulscher and Mike Venturino do so. I do so before FL resizing as one of my Shiloh 45-70s (a Farmingdale) requires it for ease of chambering.
However, the erosive effect on the gas plate seemed to be enhanced compared to BP. It also had an odd chemical smell some find offensive.
The biggest issue with using BP in BPCRs is not the rifle clean up, which is easier that with a smokeless rifle, but the brass. If the brass is not cleaned, dried and tumbled ASAP after firing, it can deteriorate very quickly. That is the main objection people have towards BP use in BPCRs.
I also anneal after each firing after reading that shooters like Butch Ulscher and Mike Venturino do so. I do so before FL resizing as one of my Shiloh 45-70s (a Farmingdale) requires it for ease of chambering.
Yeah I think the projectile was loaded in europe before the canadian company took over manufacturing. Unfortunately I only had one of that version that wasnt fired as all the canadian and US made ones had regular fffg powder in them from the looks of it, no odd colors. Fired it because the primer had a light strike so I used it to get chrony data.
I find myself wondering if the red colour is a smokeless powder breaking down. I have seen an orange dust coming off of old smokeless powder
cheers mooncoon
I agree with this comment. Early so-called smokeless, Sears, Roebuck called it 'White powder', was a VERY strange concoction as makers of cheap cartridges tried to get around the real smokeless patents. I have pages of old shotguns in a 1903 Sears catalogue listing the superior properties of their guns that are 'imminently suitable for the shooting of the new sensation, White powder.'
Maybe but it shot perfectly. I assumed the powder was one of those wonder powders that at the time was used as bp substitute that used absorbic acid as a replacement component. If I had more from that manufacturer Id open them up to see if maybe they had a special powder batch made to Identify their product since it was for military and law enforcement.
"In my youth" I felt compelled to try shooting BP in my old Winchester guns... very quickly I came to understand why Smokeless gunpowder was invented : NASTY stuff to clean out of a barrel ... need to do it soon after shooting ... BP is NASTY STUFF TO "#### WITH" ... black powder EXPLODES on ignition (BP was in the old firecrackers) while SMOKELESS POWDER simply BURNS VERY QUICKLY. The "old timers" shooting BP calibers did not realize the importance of cleaning the bore REAL SOON after shooting ... BP residue plus a bit of moist air over time corroded the barrel and in so doing BUGGERED/OBLITERATED the rifling ....��
You say that on a BP forum? Why are you here since you don't have a dog in the fight?
Thousands of Cowboy Action shooters and BPCR shooters burn up BP every day. They learn to clean their guns promptly after use as well as the brass. BP is NOT for the lazy person, but provides the shooter with a connection to the past before we relied on smokeless powder and scoped rifles.
Nothing beats putting down a moose, deer or bear with a BP rifle for which your cast/sized/lubed your own bullets! No meat destruction. You can eat right up to the bullet hole.
Thousands of Cowboy Action shooters and BPCR shooters burn up BP every day. They learn to clean their guns promptly after use as well as the brass. BP is NOT for the lazy person, but provides the shooter with a connection to the past before we relied on smokeless powder and scoped rifles.
Nothing beats putting down a moose, deer or bear with a BP rifle for which your cast/sized/lubed your own bullets! No meat destruction. You can eat right up to the bullet hole.
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
I burn only real black powder in my rifles and shotguns- cartridge and muzzle loaders
in the shotguns I use brass cases and simply drop them into a Tupperware container with soapy water
overnight or as long as o am hunting , then clean them out later .
shot a passle of geese this weekend with the cartridge gun and the muzzle loader using Bismuth and FFG, no problem
Cat
in the shotguns I use brass cases and simply drop them into a Tupperware container with soapy water
overnight or as long as o am hunting , then clean them out later .
shot a passle of geese this weekend with the cartridge gun and the muzzle loader using Bismuth and FFG, no problem
Cat
fat tony
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Sounds like it might have been a variation of the Cocoa powder made notorious by the USS Maine incident?
