Prohibited ar15

[scout_289]

I wonder if Wolverine will refund my $50 WK180C deposit if it's banned before they ship it?

But in all seriousness, reading this thread has actually made me sad for a couple reasons. One, seeing how divided this community is. Everyone here is trying to reach a common goal but nobody agrees how to get there it seems. Two, that there seems to be some misguided hope in a Conservative government. I know there are some Conservatives that are using firearms to gain some appeal with voters, but being pro-gun seems like political suicide for any politician. Can you really see any serious PM candidate saying on national television before an election that they are pro gun? With the number of gun violence that's happened in Toronto this summer? NO WAY. To me, it's a doomed cause. The Conservatives wont save us. The only thing saving our guns are the sheer quantity of them out there (logistical nightmare taking them from people) and also the Americans. Their gun culture is just too thick and too close to us for us to out-write ban firearms without some change being implemented in the USA first (or at least the border states).

This community is and always has been divided by what each individual chooses for their guns. Therefore, we have to find areas of commonality on other issues that affect us and define ourselves as gun owners. Period.

Only then will we stand a chance to unite in significant numbers and start a meaningful pushback.

 

[Ingots]

I did not sign the social contract.

 

[viallet]

I haven't read all the posts to this point, just the first few pages worth. Anyone interested in putting money where their mouth is? I'll throw a couple hundred dollars towards a fund to challenge this latest ruling. It's an opinion, not law? So bring them to court over one of these ARs and show how an engraving in the wrong spot makes it infinitely more readily convertible to full auto. I don't have skin in this game, but I'm tired of seeing my like minded Canadians be pushed around in small groups at a time. The divide and conquer only works when we allow ourselves to be divided. It just takes one victory against the lab's opinions to cause a precedent. If they overstepped on this then maybe the 1022 mag issue is the next fish to fry. The blaze-47? (can't recall the name)... etc etc.

Let's be honest, it is complete BS. With the time it took me to machine out a lower and make the auto sear, etc. I could have built a dozen sten type SMGs with less tooling in my garage. Or set the 3d printer to make me a mold to cast a new receiver.

 

[Ingots]

Count me in.

 

[HKobsessed]

I'm in as well...

 

[sillymike]

Ask the 12(x) folks.

12(x) is useless...
- Ask all the guys who can no longer take their 12.x rifles to the range
- the value of your 12.x gun will take beating
- It only postpone the disarmament one generation


Personally, I think that before prohibiting any other firearms. The government should come clear and release to the public all documentation pertaining to the previous prohibition.
- If the data is irrelevant or misleading, these prohibition needs to be reversed.

Thousands of firearms were prohibited because they were a "variant" of a prohibited firearm.
- How could they classify something a variant if there are no legal definition of a "variant" ?

#4 - "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules."

 

[scout_289]

12(x) is useless...
- Ask all the guys who can no longer take their 12.x rifles to the range
- the value of your 12.x gun will take beating
- It only postpone the disarmament one generation

Personally, I think that before prohibiting any other firearms. The government should come clear and release to the public all documentation pertaining to the previous prohibition.
- If the data is irrelevant or misleading, these prohibition needs to be reversed.

Thousands of firearms were prohibited because they were a "variant" of a prohibited firearm.
- How could they classify something a variant if there are no legal definition of a "variant" ?

The poster asked an open question which I was trying to respond to: "has there been any instances of confiscation without compensation"? (Paraphrased it).

12(x) is delayed confiscation without compensation.

 

[scout_289]

Strange how so many are ready to chip in for a court case yet if each and every gun owner put a dollar a year into funds to provide support for charities and scholarships that target root causes of crime, very few of us see the huge dividends that would pay us in terms of reversing our image?

Courts are slow, unpredictable, biased and expensive. Not to mention the decisions can be overturned by the government.

Good PR from the millions$ we contributed and properly communicated in regular and social media would hit the headlines overnight.

 

[ShawnC6]

Pretty ridiculous.

However full auto trigger groups are available. Still have to do the illegal parts of drilling and fitting it into an already registered restricted firearm which would be idiotic.

 

[viallet]

Strange how so many are ready to chip in for a court case yet if each and every gun owner put a dollar a year into funds to provide support for charities and scholarships that target root causes of crime, very few of us see the huge dividends that would pay us in terms of reversing our image?

Courts are slow, unpredictable, biased and expensive. Not to mention the decisions can be overturned by the government.

Good PR from the millions$ we contributed and properly communicated in regular and social media would hit the headlines overnight.

I give over 20k to charities annually. Sometimes you need to address root causes and sometimes go for what's right in front of you.

 

[Steve_B]

Hit the headlines overnight?

Maybe if it’s “Run for Cancer denies gun lobby sponsorship as protesters outnumber runners”

Otherwise I think we have a long road ahead consisting of quietly being good Samaritans.

 

[scout_289]

I give over 20k to charities annually. Sometimes you need to address root causes and sometimes go for what's right in front of you.

A commendable effort and that's sincere comment.

- I wish that there were more like minded people.
- your contribution is generous to say the least but without taking anything away from it there may be benefit to us in more people contributing far less making it more of a community effort.
- the target charities I'm sure are appreciative but I'd be looking for some reciprocal recognition that the monies are coming from the gun community who are taking affirmative action in addressing violence.
- the above recognition has to go into a broadcast from our community to the public / politicians in a manner that does not appear selfish or can otherwise be easily diminished. That's how we re-engineer or image.
- if you have been following my posts you will see that there are several elements necessary to an effective campaign on our behalf. Your "outreach" and communication are but two of them. Other elements look to what's in front of us.

Thank you for your contribution. You do set a high bar!

 

[sillymike]

Good PR from the millions$ we contributed and properly communicated in regular and social media would hit the headlines overnight.

If every firearm owner was a member of a shooting org.
- This would be a non-issue.

If every firearm owner would pick up the phone and call his/her MP
- This would be a non-issue.

If every firearm owner would respond to silly-anti-gun editorial
- This would be a non-issue.

 

[scout_289]

Hit the headlines overnight?

Maybe if it’s “Run for Cancer denies gun lobby sponsorship as protesters outnumber runners”

Otherwise I think we have a long road ahead consisting of quietly being good Samaritans.

Yes, it's going to take a long time to "reconcile" decades of social engineering and building anti gun hatred. That's why I tried to get us going back in early 2015 and now it may be too late to blunt another assault on our guns.

FYI back then I contacted senior representatives of a major mental health org and asked if they would be concerned about the optics of our contribution.

The answer, "if you are willing to work with us on this huge problem then people are just going to have to get over the fact that you own politically incorrect objects".

With respect, I can think of dozens of reasons why we would not succeed in changing the channel.

But top of the list as to why we would fail is that we don't even try .........

 

[scout_289]

If every firearm owner was a member of a shooting org.
- This would be a non-issue.

If every firearm owner would pick up the phone and call his/her MP
- This would be a non-issue.

If every firearm owner would respond to silly-anti-gun editorial
- This would be a non-issue.

All of these are contained in elements of the program I'm suggesting.

May I ask you why you don't think that an additional element of "outreach" would not provide further benefit?

 

[scout_289]

Hit the headlines overnight?

Maybe if it’s “Run for Cancer denies gun lobby sponsorship as protesters outnumber runners”

Otherwise I think we have a long road ahead consisting of quietly being good Samaritans.

I never said "quietly".

Picture this: John Tory has been harping on homelessness before he got onto the banning of firearms.

So what if 10 or 12 gunnies had shown up at a Habitat for Humanity construction site wearing bright yellow CCFR or CSSA T shirts. There are talented members of our community that have skills that would blow away those of the well intentioned public that show up there. Do you not think that a properly managed PR campaign would not garner some positive press?

And your example of our offer being rebuffed could easily be spun to our benefit. "Look at how we're being victimized / discriminated against. .....".

 

[MrMasacre]

How do we even go about organizing this. 90% of the people on here ( myself included ) would benefit greatly from some sort of marching orders. We need a focused approach that is straightforward for people to do.

I think you're absolutely correct, with a little bit of organization and some sort of straight forward peaceful "marching orders", i think a lot more of us would be able to be heard.

I'm in Alberta, and i'd definitely be willing to donate some money and my time to PR campaigns or organized support, i'm about 2 hours from edmonton or 5-6 from calgary and would be willing to meet up and support!

I'd like to do more than make phone calls and send emails and letters to our government, and i know we can do more as a community!

Anyone have any thoughts?

 

[Armored]

A handful of vendors sell "pretend" suppressors. Give me one of those fake suppressors, a Popsicle stick and a rubber band and I can convert it into a fully functional suporessor in under 10 minutes.

The next step John? My guess. Threaded barrels.

I've heard the same can be done with an oil filter or a 2 litre pop bottle. Maybe prohib. those also? When will this Lib-tard madness stop?

 

[scout_289]

I think you're absolutely correct, with a little bit of organization and some sort of straight forward peaceful "marching orders", i think a lot more of us would be able to be heard.

I'm in Alberta, and i'd definitely be willing to donate some money and my time to PR campaigns or organized support, i'm about 2 hours from edmonton or 5-6 from calgary and would be willing to meet up and support!

I'd like to do more than make phone calls and send emails and letters to our government, and i know we can do more as a community!

Anyone have any thoughts?

The communication element of our strategy runs like this:

- volunteers in every possible community across Canada watch local media and local governments for anti firearm propaganda etc.
- this information is forwarded to a central location where (ideally) our gun orgs are working together cooperatively to gather and process this information.
- using statistics and factual information the staff at the central location prepare an official response based on professional PR input.
- this response goes out to all of the satellite location volunteers and the anti firearms media or government entity gets a flurry of information countering their anti gun agenda.
- fanning out our responses beyond the volunteers alone could be a force multiplier
- statistics gathered from this process could be used ot prove that we are being unfairly discriminated against with false information and innuendo. Good fodder for letters to politicians and for use in court as a last resort.
- properly set up the responses could happen in less than 24 hours putting the kibosh to false info before it grows legs.
- much of this can be done over social media and other internet tools so minimal physical effort is required.
- this way we a group close ranks globally but act locally.
- the gun orgs are the logical catalyst to make this happen because they already have their network of field officers etc. If they learn to cooperate for "communication" maybe they could bury the baggage and cooperate on other elements of an overall effort.

Thanks for your offer to assist!

 

[MrMasacre]

The communication element of our strategy runs like this:

- volunteers in every possible community across Canada watch local media and local governments for anti firearm propaganda etc.
- this information is forwarded to a central location where (ideally) our gun orgs are working together cooperatively to gather and process this information.
- using statistics and factual information the staff at the central location prepare an official response based on professional PR input.
- this response goes out to all of the satellite location volunteers and the anti firearms media or government entity gets a flurry of information countering their anti gun agenda.
- fanning out our responses beyond the volunteers alone could be a force multiplier
- statistics gathered from this process could be used ot prove that we are being unfairly discriminated against with false information and innuendo. Good fodder for letters to politicians and for use in court as a last resort.
- properly set up the responses could happen in less than 24 hours putting the kibosh to false info before it grows legs.
- much of this can be done over social media and other internet tools so minimal physical effort is required.
- this way we a group close ranks globally but act locally.
- the gun orgs are the logical catalyst to make this happen because they already have their network of field officers etc. If they learn to cooperate for "communication" maybe they could bury the baggage and cooperate on other elements of an overall effort.

Thanks for your offer to assist!

I like the idea of this but how do we get from here to there? Its easy for us to volunteer with the local legion, food bank, or cadet core, or to donate money, or send letters and emails out as individuals but where do we go from there?

How do we get the ball rolling on this? I know there are guys out there like me who are willing to and who want to do their part to protect our firearm rights.

Who do we forward the information to?

Who is going to organize us to show the rest of our fellow Canadians that we're not just a bunch of people behind keyboards, but rather members of the community who care, we are fathers, mothers, siblings, coworkers, and friends.

I'm thinking more and more about what you said and i hope you don't mind me elaborating but; Imagine if 15 people in every major city decided to don bright yellow CCFR shirts and set up a pop up soup kitchen or some other community service; we would get some POSTIVE media attention, and it would show that we can and will stand together.

The question isn't: do we have the support? manpower? resources? We have all of these in this community right here, right now.

I'd be willing to do my part and I can expect most of the people reading this would be willing to as well;
The question is, who is going to organize us?