How’s the Norinco M305?

[260SnowBird]

Hey everyone, just looking to get some opinions on the m1a clone, I plan on getting the .308 one. Been thinking about picking one up soon since I’m getting a nice bonus. From what I’ve heard it sounds like it’s an all around fun gun for target shooting and hunting. Although I’ve also heard accuracy isn’t great out of the box. I plan on putting a red dot or scope on it, but before that should I do anything else on it, would I have to pour a lot of money into it before it hits its potential? Also another reason I want one is just because I want a black rifle to be “tacticool” with before I get around to getting my restricted for an ar15, should I just wait and save? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated!

I purchased mine off the EE here by a fellow CGN'er, absolutely love the rifle, it's a 2007 import and has a Chu-Wood stock, and is all norinco, it actually shoots pretty good at 100 yards with the irons, I highly recommend picking up a older import from the EE and have fun with it, like others have said the rifles are generally cheap enough, however if your shooting factory ammo 24.99 a box gets steep, I plan on working up a load when I have time from work to bring the trigger time cost down,
Here's mine,

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[Pr589]

Check out this old thread to level-set some accuracy expectations. Getting a 1.5 MOA gun can be done but it's not that easy.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1049913-M1A-Precision-Challenge-1-5-MOA

 

[johnamillertime]

The 2007 M305s/M14s are reputed to be well done. I have one too, that I bought new then, and it's a tack driver.

 

[Fordtrucks]

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[cr5]

Have you tried it without the muzzle brake?

I had a navy on mine and found groups opened a tad.

Ymmv of course.

I haven't tried anything with it other than I ran an afternoon of load development with H4895 and the Hornady 168gr BTHP projectiles.
Having the reloading bench 20 steps away from the shooting bench really makes load development easy, I can build three at a time and go outside and run them over the chrony and see if they look promising on paper then move on to the next load if they're all over the place, so much better than building 5 testers of each charge then going to the range and having to test and potentially pull bullets if I run into pressure signs before I get to the end. I also find that during development 3 rounds is enough to give an idea of how the load will perform then just build more to see how consistent the results are. It also let's me get it up to the velocity I'm hoping for very quickly and safely without a lot of wasted rounds, then once I'm in the ballpark I can zero in on the accuracy node.
My plan is to try the barrel tension thing in the BF chassis and if that doesn't tighten it up a little I'll try some different projectiles.
It shoots so smooth right now I'd hate to remove the brake, also, even if it doesn't tighten up it's shooting very well and I could easily stop now and be good but maybe a little more fiddling with the load will tighten it up a little.
I've got other rifles ahead of this in line for further load development right now so it will have to wait for a while.

 

[Aprilia Man]

How to identify if it's 2007 or older ?

Serial number ?

Date stamp ?

Buy one 2007 or older.

Do not buy one of these rifles if you think you're going to put it in a fancy stock, buy a match op rod and magically have a rifle that will shoot 1 moa.

I have one that has had pretty much every part changed or worked over by someone who knows this platform, including swapping in a Krieger barrel and it's still not shooting 1 moa even with handloads (it's close though).
My other M305 has been through a clinic and had some minor attention paid to it but still has the factory barrel and it's never shot anything better than 3 moa.

I don't like to call people liars but if the guys who claimed to be getting 1 moa from their mostly stock M305 were actually getting those results everyone here would own one of these rifles. A fluke 3 shot group out of a days worth of 3-4 moa groups does not make the rifle a 1 moa rifle.
With the factory barrel I would guess that 2 moa with match grade ammo or handloads is attainable but to get any better than that will require putting some real money into it.
I'm talking about consistently producing those results so to the guys who are going to jump in and tell me their rifle shoots that well I'd like to see evidence of it before I believe it. I've owned five of these rifles now over the years and none have shot as well as some of the people claim their rifle shoots. I could believe that every now and then someone gets a unicorn and they can shoot 1.5 moa consistently but it is not the norm for this rifle.

They are also not a great rifle to add a scope to, I have an M14.ca CASM and also some other (not sure of the brand) and while it does hold the scope I don't feel it is as sturdy as having a rail machined into the receiver.

These are however a very enjoyable rifle to shoot and are a lot of fun to modify and play with as long as you keep your expectations realistic and don't expect to end up competing with the guys with their Stag-10, I love my cheap one with the iron sights and only have a scope on it now so I can develop a good plinking load for it before going back to the irons.

 

[caramel]

Bought 2X Socom M305 for my twins grandkids, had one indexed ok, the other one was fine, both got a NM oprod installed in it, bought a skid of the surplus Hirt berdan prime and they have been shooting very well for a couple of years, both have north of 2K shots with no issues, they are workhorse.

 

[buji88]

I should've never sold mine was ok with some handloads other than accidentally running my super hot rifle loads through it. Now I know more about the M14 I will do it right next time.

 

[caramel]

This is my first M14 bought from the evil store, it still running strong.

Cant tell what year it was built but i bought it in 2008 so could be a 2007.

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[beltfed]

How to identify if it's 2007 or older ?

I'm not up on all of what Norinco did for markings through the years, but based on the one I have I'd look for the following:

No markings on top of receiver.
Along the left side electro penciled:

M14 .308
CJA SFLD MICH.
NORINCO MADE IN CHINA

I believe these were destined for the US market and turned away by their import restrictions placed on China at the time.
If you find one of the US distributor marked ones and it haven't been monkeyed with, it is likely you'll get a half decent one.

I would not touch recent Norinco M305s - if you are in doubt, go with a Springer or if you can afford it, an LRB.

Edit to ad an interesting thread from the high road with commentary by Clint McKee from Fulton Armoury:

https_://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/norinco-m305-m14.310941/

 

[45ACPKING]

okay then......


manufacture codes for forged chinese receivers are under the stockline on left hand side..... no exceptions.
Canadian import markings are what "we" are talking about when "we" say 2007, 2014, pre-2005 ect ect
Starting between 2005 and 2007..... an import date was applied to each receiver. on 2005 and 2007 models and I believe 2009 it was a stand alone number on the right side of the receiver heel. *there are no 2006, 2008 imports as far as I am aware.
I believe, starting in 2009, that import number was incorporated into the serial numbers on the left hand side below rear sight location.
there are no other markings on these receivers to look for other than what I just mentioned. Cosmetic markings from china can differ across the various "good receivers" so getting into detail on those is moot.
if you find a chinese receiver without an import date engraving.... it IS pre- 2005

and anyone who knows anything about chinese rifles.... knows to ignore everything Clint Mkee says about chinese rifles LOL he has a business and supports "american made" who can blame him? But those in the know, don't quote him for advice on the chinese m14 haha (that's real old news)

 

[joe n]

Thanks for sharing this! Great information!

okay then......


manufacture codes for forged chinese receivers are under the stockline on left hand side..... no exceptions.
Canadian import markings are what "we" are talking about when "we" say 2007, 2014, pre-2005 ect ect
Starting between 2005 and 2007..... an import date was applied to each receiver. on 2005 and 2007 models and I believe 2009 it was a stand alone number on the right side of the receiver heel. *there are no 2006, 2008 imports as far as I am aware.
I believe, starting in 2009, that import number was incorporated into the serial numbers on the left hand side below rear sight location.
there are no other markings on these receivers to look for other than what I just mentioned. Cosmetic markings from china can differ across the various "good receivers" so getting into detail on those is moot.
if you find a chinese receiver without an import date engraving.... it IS pre- 2005

and anyone who knows anything about chinese rifles.... knows to ignore everything Clint Mkee says about chinese rifles LOL he has a business and supports "american made" who can blame him? But those in the know, don't quote him for advice on the chinese m14 haha (that's real old news)

 

[beltfed]

So what are the manufacture codes and how to decypher them?

 

[45ACPKING]

So what are the manufacture codes and how to decypher them?

it has been common practice on the different forums relating to the m14 that folks contact member "different" (aka lee emerson) with the numbers below the stock line. He seems to have a lot more knowledge than most on this particular topic. I used to have a vague understanding but this is knowledge that has kinda slipped thru my cracks haha

The manufacture years don't seem to have a tonne of bearing on finished rifle quality but import years... and more importantly... who inspected, accepted and imported each batch..... does have a bearing.
In the beginning days of my M14s , which is what they were called before the designation M305, I purchased all my rifles thru Roger at Dark International. Every rifle I bought from Roger was excellent. Common issues like crappy rear sights but otherwise, the rifles were pretty much trouble free and did not suffer the crappy flash hiders, over indexed barrels..... none of that.
Marstars initial years of these rifles were pretty good too but by the time we got to 2009..... and after being warned by John at marstar that the "good parts" were gone in china..... these rifles have gone steadily down hill to the current fodder that is no longer using forged receivers and bolts LOL

there's tonnes of history to these rifles I won't pretend to know , stuff I never really cared to learn. I've handled 100's of them now, from basic repairs to full blown builds and watched the quality go steadily down while the dealers found new gimmicks to dress them up with and jack the price to take advantage of the "fad".

Still a huge fan of the platform, I know I come off as abrasive and some folks just don't like what I have to say but I do speak from experience and that is very hard to argue. The chinese m14 type rifles after 2009 are simply a crap shoot. The new stuff? isn't even worth importing, it's an insult to the "real" M14 community LOL

 

[Apple tree]

I had problems with a recent one but the rifle still is the best semi 308 you can get at that price. If you get a good one with forged parts it is an awesome rifle to use. I feel like everyone should try one of those.

 

[fiddler]

I like my M305 for what it is. Its a fun plinker and mine has been very reliable. I dumped the cheap plastic stock for a wood M1A stock. I've taken a couple deer with it using iron sights but its clunky and noisy like any other M1A.

 

[Joker_andthe_Thief]

I just bought the m305a! In x39 so stoked to get out and shoot this weekend! But I noticed no matter what I do I can't get the bolt to lock back should I change it out with an aftermarket, and if I do will it mess with the ak mag?

 

[jonh172]

Changing out the bolt stop should help, the mag is fully seated when trying?

See how it does after firing before you start searching parts to change.

 

[Joker_andthe_Thief]

It runs Ak47 magazines that don't allow for last shot hold back apparently.. But it seems they cut back the bolt stop to not interfere, but on cease fire I need to find a way to hold that bolt back \_(°. °)_/ I'll have to take pictures or something

 

[Garaldtao]

I like these threads where there are a bunch of haters but a whole lot more people showing love for the m305.lol. The m305 is what it is, meaning that it is not a bolt gun but accurate enough to get the work done at 100 metres. With minimal investment and some research as to what to look for you can get a 1 to 3 MOA gun which will drop anything you are hunting. The gun is a bit heavy but many people have successfully hunted with it.

As was mentioned by others, buy an older m305 with a forged receiver and bolt. If you don't want to decipher the markings, there are pictures online comparing forged parts with MIM parts. MIM is metal injected moulding which is a process of combining metal powder with resins under pressure and heat without melting the metal. So MIM not even close to having the durability of a forging which is one of the strongest processes.

An indexed barrel is desired but not a deal breaker if you are planning to remove the iron sights anyways. I recommend the CASM scope mount. It is made in Canada easy for a DYI and it is a solid mount. How much do they go for now? $135 I think. The only other things you should do to get started, once you get your rifle is to get a new op rod guide rod (around $20 I think), penne the op rod guide, remove the flash hider to shim the gas lock. If the flash hider is welded, an they do this for import reasons, there are tutorials on how to do this. Takes a bit of effort but not impossible to remove. Use the right ammo and you will be well on your way.

From that point on, you can dump as much or as little money into it as you want. And to be honest, once you cut your teeth on tinkering with an m305, AR builds are a God sent because they are so easy and there are so many choices when it comes to parts and accessories. Don't let anyone discourage you from getting your m305. The most difficult decision you should face is not whether you should buy one but rather if you want one with an 18 or 22 inch barrel.