Choosing actions for a build

Lot’s of dissing around the savage action.
Round count 1500+, trigger feels nice (rifle basix) and is on par with a 5000$ 1911, not trigger tech diamond quality though.
Always fed, always ejected, is always sub 0.5moa even 25 rounds under an hour (with a custom pre fit barrel), and bolt slop makes it always seem cheap!

I know i cannot compare it with customs, but where else can you build a complete rifle, including custom barrel , chassis, brake, trigger, for under 2000$ with a sub-1/2 moa guarantee, and probably even better because i’m still the new guy at this and can still make it without too much effort.

Would i chose a defiance before a savage 10?
Hell yeah
Would i chose a rem700 over a savage 10?
Nope!
 
there is an intangible to custom actions that is hard to put a price on. Did my custom 700 have sub .5 groups? it sure did, my 2 defiances do it too - I probably wont be buying anymore 700s though.

BTW, shot 25 rounds in about 12 minutes with my Insite barreled action. One group was .597 and it included the clean cold bore. The rest were all sub .5 - atlas bipod and bag btw.
 
Then again i would never compare a savage with an insite build.
There is a time, and place, and budget for action choice.
I just feel that within the lower end of things, i.e. savage, rem700, howa 1500, ruger rpr... that savage is a great option.
Offering pre fit barrels, means people can swap barrels themselves, and have something in between factory and custom accuracy.

They got pretty strong aftermarket support from manufacturers too.
I am not praising them as great or anything, just a solid choice, within the lower budget end of things, and in my opinion.
 
Dollars spent on a great barrel and a good gunsmith will provide multitudes greater accuracy potential when compared to the action imo.
 
MartyK2500 said:
Lot’s of dissing around the savage action.
Round count 1500+, trigger feels nice (rifle basix) and is on par with a 5000$ 1911, not trigger tech diamond quality though.
Always fed, always ejected, is always sub 0.5moa even 25 rounds under an hour (with a custom pre fit barrel), and bolt slop makes it always seem cheap!

I know i cannot compare it with customs, but where else can you build a complete rifle, including custom barrel , chassis, brake, trigger, for under 2000$ with a sub-1/2 moa guarantee, and probably even better because i’m still the new guy at this and can still make it without too much effort.

Would i chose a defiance before a savage 10?
Hell yeah
Would i chose a rem700 over a savage 10?
Nope!
Click to expand...

No one is contesting that Savages can't shoot. Most rifles these days can shoot fairly well.

Sure, if you want a very basic and cheap rifle, get a Savage. It will be cheap, and it will shoot. But you get what you pay for, and there is a reason why Savage's are some of the cheapest rifles.

And although your anecdotal experience of a sample size of one rifle (which is statistically irrelevant) may tell you that their rifles are fine, other people have had lots of issues with them. As I stated earlier, a precision rifle trainer in the US who trains all over the US (and even up in Canada occasionally) doesn't allow Savage rifles in his courses anymore as he's had so much issues with them, and time spent to fix them. You get what you pay for.

With all the new great budget options out there now, the Savage is just not a great value proposition anymore for the serious shooter.
 
Last edited:
I'm not personally dissing the savage, mine is shooting absolutely amazing with the shillen I have on it. I got a .36" CTC 5 shot group with it (picture below) and got .3 in. 5 shot groups as well. But it is limited, the action is...a little rough and loose. so if you want the very best for your build then i would have to say go for a 700 type action that you can eventually swap out or even start with a top of the line surgeon, defiance, stiller etc... one that you can also use the very best triggers as well...just saying. To be fair, the stock 700 actions are known to have some issues with them like the stripped/angled/misaligned rail screw holes but i would not keep it if it had those problems anyways, or i would drill and tap. No need to be brand loyal about anything...it's a thing.

14xgq4j.jpg
 
Last edited:
I never disagreed with this stand point.
It’s that why i never put savage on the same pedestal as customs.

There is factory entry grade.
Modified factory rifle.
And full custom rifle.

I guess we could squeeze high grade factory like tikka in between there too.

And think savage fits well the entry grade niche, and without a gunsmith, you can swap a barrel and bed it to a chassis for an affordable semi custom.
Never to be compared with a full custom though, 2 entirely different beasts.

It does have it’s place getting low budget shooters out there with respectable groups.
 
MartyK2500 said:
Lot’s of dissing around the savage action.
Round count 1500+, trigger feels nice (rifle basix) and is on par with a 5000$ 1911, not trigger tech diamond quality though.
Always fed, always ejected, is always sub 0.5moa even 25 rounds under an hour (with a custom pre fit barrel), and bolt slop makes it always seem cheap!

I know i cannot compare it with customs, but where else can you build a complete rifle, including custom barrel , chassis, brake, trigger, for under 2000$ with a sub-1/2 moa guarantee, and probably even better because i’m still the new guy at this and can still make it without too much effort.

Would i chose a defiance before a savage 10?
Hell yeah
Would i chose a rem700 over a savage 10?
Nope!
Click to expand...

I get a chuckle about how a very vague question can lead to all sorts of very specific responses and opinions... with a very narrow focus.

If you look at the F class world, there are alot of Savage actions used. If you look at the Gear list for the 2017 Berger SW Nationals (the largest F class match in North American and one of the largest in the world - over 450 shooters), one of the most popular actions was.... the Savage.

The Savage action has been used to win the US Nationals, State and Provincial championships and tons and tons of local matches... all around the world.

On the flip side, in over 12 yrs of F class competition, I have never seen a Tikka being used... and I travel around Canada and the US.

Why in my first post, I needed to understand the context of the question... something more should consider.

Is the Savage a great base to build an accurate rifle that competes in a very demanding accuracy orientated sport like F class (ie hitting a 5" circle at 1000yds on demand)? Yes Would I use a Tikka in F class? NO

Would I choose a Savage as a base to build a mag fed repeater rifle (ie a PRS type rifle)? NO. Would I consider a Tikka? Yes.

So when I get asked these types of questions dozens of times a week, I always start by learning the end use goals. I really don't care what parts are used.. I only care that the most appropriate parts get used.

YMMV.

Jerry

PS by the way, the OP still hasn't indicated how the rifle would be used....
 
This is something that wasn’t spoken much in this thread, the end use for the rifle.
Sure there is budget, but the use of rifle was overlooked.
 
MartyK2500 said:
I never disagreed with this stand point.
It’s that why i never put savage on the same pedestal as customs.

There is factory entry grade.
Modified factory rifle.
And full custom rifle.

I guess we could squeeze high grade factory like tikka in between there too.

And think savage fits well the entry grade niche, and without a gunsmith, you can swap a barrel and bed it to a chassis for an affordable semi custom.
Never to be compared with a full custom though, 2 entirely different beasts.

It does have it’s place getting low budget shooters out there with respectable groups.
Click to expand...

I would choose my actions based on how they work vs the intended end use goals... they cost whatever they cost. Too many assume that a low cost of entry must mean an inferior part.... sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I focus on the engineering, materials and function... there are alot of very expensive stuff, I wouldn't choose to use.

There are metrics that shooters will use to consider a part good or bad... many are based on "feel"?. I consider how that action or part will perform under its given tasks.

If you were in Raton for the 2013 Worlds, you would have heard the howls of complaints as custom action after custom action went down. The ambient conditions did not work well with vault tight actions.

On the flip side, the Savage actions ate up the conditions and never missed a beat.

Good? Bad?

Jerry

PS - Seems like a FTR shooter using a Savage action placed 4th at the US Nationals in Raton over the weekend. Horses for Courses....
 
Last edited:
MartyK2500 said:
This is something that wasn’t spoken much in this thread, the end use for the rifle.
Sure there is budget, but the use of rifle was overlooked.
Click to expand...

What's the actual budget? We don't know that either....

I have helped customers build their "all out, super expensive" $2500 rifle... and others who figured they would really cut back on the costs and spend "no more then" $8,000.

As I said... more info required.

YMMV

Jerry
 
Mystic Precision said:
I would choose my actions based on how they work vs the intended end use goals... they cost whatever they cost. Too many assume that a low cost of entry must mean an inferior part.... sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I focus on the engineering, materials and function... there are alot of very expensive stuff, I wouldn't choose to use.

There are metrics that shooters will use to consider a part good or bad... many are based on "feel"?. I consider how that action or part will perform under its given tasks.

If you were in Raton for the 2013 Worlds, you would have heard the howls of complaints as custom action after custom action went down. The ambient conditions did not work well with vault tight actions.

On the flip side, the Savage actions ate up the conditions and never missed a beat.

Good? Bad?

Jerry
Click to expand...

First off, that is 2013 and actions have come a long way since then. Second of all, bench rest shooters choose to shoot actions that have really tight tolerances, such as BAT's or Bordens. There are plenty of great custom actions that are built to eat up the fine dust.

Pretty disingenuous to suggest that Savages are the only actions that will eat up dust. Their poor QA/QC and manufacturing causes lots of other issues.
 
Equipment lists at International Benchrest Shooters Nationals SBR last year... not a single Savage or Rem. Long Range (1000yd) Nationals, fewer than 10% ran Savage and Rem combined.
 
Funny I run my custom actions in very dusty conditions and have never had one “go down” but I’m sure with your vast experience shooting on world stages or whatever you claim to fame is this week you’ve seen it all. I do have a Savage 12 target action with a ptg bolt and bolt head and it’s still garbage. Does it shoot? Sure it’s a ppc it should but it also wears a top quality benchmark barrel. I tried every aftermarket trigger out there and they are all garbage. One round 4oz pull next round 8lbs pull, next round hang fire. Again garbage. Went back to factory junk trigger and put the gun on the shelve till I can find somebody that wants it. I’ll stick with my bat ppc for bench rest it’s never “gone down”
 
kthomas said:
Problem with going this route is you sink a bunch of money turning a basic budget action into a slightly better mediocre action, without increasing the resale value. Sure you can make it shoot well, but it's still feature lacking and doesn't feel that great compared to other options. Not a wise investment IMO.

Better off starting off on a Tikka or better. The exception to upgrading a Rem700 is a TacOps, but they do things to those actions no other gunsmiths do.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you make some solid points. Resale value is definitely something to think about because at the end of the day a budget build is just that, a budget build. I'd rather cough up the extra dough and put it into a solid system that's guaranteed not to shoot like a 12 gauge.
 
I hope it is not too late to steal the topic.

I'm planning the following:

  • Repeater, short action, in 308, intended usage: light PRS, general purpose rifle
  • Needs to fit MDT LSS-XL drop in and feed from unmodified AICS mags
  • Should accept savage small shank barrels
  • Should fit Tiggertech without modifications

I need advice on action, my current shortlist:

  • Origin
  • Nucleus

I was going for Deadline, but now its out of the picture.


Are there any other options I'm missing? What would be the best way to get Origin or Nucleus, what timeframe I should expect?
 
For all the discussion about this action or that I'm left with what I think is the over arching differentiator being stiffness of the action.

The Savage actions that are cleared across the top like a Rem 700 have no mechanical advantage over the 700.

The Savage action with the small milled ejection port are notably stiffer and for accuracy, do offer a stiffness advantage over the 700.

But then Tikka is a mechanically stiff action with a side ejection port and solid steel across the top.

So for what we might call budget actions, the Tikka is solid and worth a close look. It also has a very smoot bolt so cycling is smooth. A disadvantage might be acceptable alternative mags, depending on action length.

You can tell a good action when you start ladder testing by how much the POI changes as the load is changed. A good stiff rig will not walk the POI much as the powder charge is changed and that is the end goal of a good consistent rifle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom