Not for combat for sure yes!
but at the range the rifle is good, that is why I mentioned the stock, the sights & the trigger.
But chasing ghosts in the jungle? NOPE!
The M14 was not a good rifle.
- Thread starter Reaper of the apocalypse
- Start date
Not for combat for sure yes!
but at the range the rifle is good, that is why I mentioned the stock, the sights & the trigger.
But chasing ghosts in the jungle? NOPE!
Being of riper years, I can remember when the M-14, and the M-16 were introduced. It was not particularly well thought of at the time, and was rapidly replaced by the M-16, which was a much more modern concept. The FNFAL and G3 were much more successful and remained in use far longer. The M-14 was rapidly relegated to special purposes for which it was well suited. Had the AI AR-10 been available in quantity a few years earlier, it probably would have been the standard for comparison, and would still be in widespread issue.
BeaverMeat
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nanaimo, B.C.
The Ordanance Corp never issued cleaning kits for the M16 initially.
There were several issues that caused problems initially including a shortage of cleaning kits. He suggests there was INTENT to cause problems for combat troops. That would have been treason. People would have swung for that.
I recall hearing that the M16 was described as "self-cleaning" when it was first introduced.
The thought was that minimal cleaning was necessary. Lots of members here shoot ARs, some shoot them a lot. How much cleaning is necessary?
Then there was an ammunition change, with ball powder being substituted, and the amount of fouling increased, as did the cyclic rate of fire, which also contributed to increased fouling, and the problems started.
If you have an AR, what sort of "cleaning kit" do you need? Solvent, oil, rags? And a rod and something to clean the chamber? It was the latter two items that would have been in short supply.
There was also the issue of training. And the issue of the environmental conditions in which the rifles were being used, with minimal care and training in the care needed. The humidity and rain, coupled with non-chromed bore and chamber contributed to pitting in the chamber, which would render a rifle unserviceable.
Then there was an ammunition change, with ball powder being substituted, and the amount of fouling increased, as did the cyclic rate of fire, which also contributed to increased fouling, and the problems started.
If you have an AR, what sort of "cleaning kit" do you need? Solvent, oil, rags? And a rod and something to clean the chamber? It was the latter two items that would have been in short supply.
There was also the issue of training. And the issue of the environmental conditions in which the rifles were being used, with minimal care and training in the care needed. The humidity and rain, coupled with non-chromed bore and chamber contributed to pitting in the chamber, which would render a rifle unserviceable.
The M14 is a good rifle but I would agree that as a main battle rifle for widespread troop use on front lines, it's a poor choice.
However, as we have seen in several areas of the world and by more than one country , the M14 platform fills a niche on the battlefield in support and DMR roles.
Modern advancements to the rifle are what enables it to still be deployed throughout the world , albeit in a limitted fashion.
Where the M14 rifle has really found it's home is in the hands of sporting, hunting and competition shooters, both in the civillian and military circles..... and in these roles it has proven it deserves to be here still to this day.
However, as we have seen in several areas of the world and by more than one country , the M14 platform fills a niche on the battlefield in support and DMR roles.
Modern advancements to the rifle are what enables it to still be deployed throughout the world , albeit in a limitted fashion.
Where the M14 rifle has really found it's home is in the hands of sporting, hunting and competition shooters, both in the civillian and military circles..... and in these roles it has proven it deserves to be here still to this day.
This. It excelled as a frontline sniper rifle in XM21 then M21 trim and survived as a DMR in the middle east as a favourite of many DM's. The intermediate cartridge assault rifles have been the preffered frontline small arms because they are a more effecient tool for the job. None of this makes the M14 less cool.
Exactly.
I would add to that, we Canadians were lucky to have the cheap clones coming from China. It allowed many people to get in the M14/M1A game.
BattleRife
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- of No Fixed Address
I think even this position is overstated. The M14 was adapted to marksman roles after it was pulled from front line service because it was available, not because it was especially well suited. Adding a whole new weapon to inventory is time consuming and expensive. To these special services that needed 7.62mm rifles but didn't have budget for new acquisitions, the M14 program offered on-the-rack guns, parts, and armourer knowledge that were already bought and paid for. All that was needed was to reprogram a little maintenance budget money to rebuilds, and Bob's your uncle, you have an adequately serviceable marksman rifle without anything like the delays and expense required to get the rifle you actually want (Knight's SR-25).
TacticalTeacher
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Georgian Bay, ON
Or it allowed many of us suckers to fall for it ...
That’s my middle name!
I’m a sucker fan boy!Cheers, Barney
*****Allow me to clarify, I'm the OP, what I meant is that the M14 was not a good rifle, as a general issue service/battle rifle.
As a civilian rifle it's great, Tactical Teacher has clearly demonstrated that fact.
As a civilian rifle it's great, Tactical Teacher has clearly demonstrated that fact.
I just talked to a USA Vietnam vet a few days ago. He was Airforce when the M16 was first wide spread issue and said he seen a lot of the early M16s being turned in by infantry troops. He said it was no wonder the M16 had such a bad reputation in early years in Vietnam. The weapons were caked with mud that dropped off when handled. How will anything work properly in that condition
I grantee any rifle at this moment if goes to Vietnam for war will have the same problem ,
the place it has 90 days rain non stop
the place that no one could wear a t-shirt cause is always the cloths are wet
, even AK 47 had problem , all fully auto machine guns had problems ,
the only succeed rifle in that war was M40 bolt action ,
that little guy is not in that level to judge while he does not know what is going on over there ,
ask vets they know , they can talk , they are in that level to tell everyone M16 or M14 not some kids like this guy who love collecting gun brand stickers and dress like bad ass guys or non stop playing video games .
Porkchopsandwhich
CGN Regular
its heavy, the mags are heavy (1lbs fully loaded if we could have such a thing) , its sharp (shorty tall sight especially, charging handle, rear sight) the mag changes aren't great compared to other rock in style guns (ak vz.58,) and the feed lips are weak especially the china ones.
I'd like to try a FAL, G3/HK91, scar heavy is a dream, RA XCRm is better in every way but price, some of the other new 7.62 rilfes might have promise
I'd like to try a FAL, G3/HK91, scar heavy is a dream, RA XCRm is better in every way but price, some of the other new 7.62 rilfes might have promise
While my experiences with the 14 have left me cold, comparing the XCR-M or SCAR with a 1950s wood stocked rifle is hardly a fair comparison.
