Wk180c and Magazine Issue. *Warranty Work and Update!*


Deduction would reason that my Chinese norc da556 will function 100% reliably with all of my magazines all the time, every single time.
But not my 180c.
As to how I'm sure it's the issue see the posts above.
If the rifle was designed to use stanag magazines then reason would lead me to believe that all of these magazines which function flawlessly in my current norc ar and my previous sp1 Colt are all perfectly functional magazines and SHOULD then work in the 180c no?
Believe me, I now own a 180c and I want it to be the mags but I'm also a logical person.[/QUOTE]

I see.. that’s good to know, and it does shed some light on the situation.. troubling as it is. Perhaps it is the gun then. Another possibility could be the upper to lower receiver relationship of the wk? Since the mag mounts in the lower and the feed ramp is in the upper.
Just brainstorming again but I don’t like where it’s taking me. Hopefully I am wrong!
 
flyinlead said:
Deduction would reason that my Chinese norc da556 will function 100% reliably with all of my magazines all the time, every single time.
But not my 180c.
As to how I'm sure it's the issue see the posts above.
If the rifle was designed to use stanag magazines then reason would lead me to believe that all of these magazines which function flawlessly in my current norc ar and my previous sp1 Colt are all perfectly functional magazines and SHOULD then work in the 180c no?
Believe me, I now own a 180c and I want it to be the mags but I'm also a logical person.
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I see.. that’s good to know, and it does shed some light on the situation.. troubling as it is. Perhaps it is the gun then. Another possibility could be the upper to lower receiver relationship of the wk? Since the mag mounts in the lower and the feed ramp is in the upper.
Just brainstorming again but I don’t like where it’s taking me. Hopefully I am wrong![/QUOTE]

I never thought of that. I should assume it could clearly be more than just the mag catch cut/location.
You forward a good point re the upper to lower variances as well.
It could be other root causes but I really don't think it's a mag issue if all my mags worked in all my AR's, XCR-L and even some I used in my old 180b with never a single feed issue.
I'm taking it out again this sunday.
Going to take pictures and see if I can find even more mag brands I can borrow and test
 
Travis Bickle said:
I see.. that’s good to know, and it does shed some light on the situation.. troubling as it is. Perhaps it is the gun then. Another possibility could be the upper to lower receiver relationship of the wk? Since the mag mounts in the lower and the feed ramp is in the upper.
Just brainstorming again but I don’t like where it’s taking me. Hopefully I am wrong!

I never thought of that. I should assume it could clearly be more than just the mag catch cut/location.
You forward a good point re the upper to lower variances as well.
It could be other root causes but I really don't think it's a mag issue if all my mags worked in all my AR's, XCR-L and even some I used in my old 180b with never a single feed issue.
I'm taking it out again this sunday.
Going to take pictures and see if I can find even more mag brands I can borrow and test
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Bring it and a pile of ammo out to my place. I have over 40 STANAG pattern magazines, some LAR mags, a 180B-2, a NR ACR, and an XCR-L, we can try different mags in different guns and determine where the problem is, and if we haven't scared everything in the neighborhood away we can try to get some yotes, they've been noisy lately :p
 
cr5 said:
Bring it and a pile of ammo out to my place. I have over 40 STANAG pattern magazines, some LAR mags, a 180B-2, a NR ACR, and an XCR-L, we can try different mags in different guns and determine where the problem is, and if we haven't scared everything in the neighborhood away we can try to get some yotes, they've been noisy lately :p
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Ha! To hell with the testing sounds like I should just bring a few guns and have some fun lol
Whereabouts are you located brother?
 
Cranky Pants said:
My google-fu is not up to snuff lately but are we able to use LAR or pistol mags for hunting with a WK?
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Depends on your provincial hunting regs but typically big game hunting is limited to 5 round magazines and varmint hunting should be ok with LAR mags. It also depends which province you live in regarding what you can hunt with the 180c, some provinces have caliber and cartridge restrictions if you plan to hunt deer.
I'm not sure about varmint hunting with non expanding projectiles though, you might want to look that one up as well if you want to shoot the cheap stuff.
 
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So I did some very close inspection and of the rifle, feed ramps etc and careful controlled observation of the bolt picking up a round and riding over the mag etc
I can say a few things for sure:
The chamber on mine is tight. I'm using bulk 5.56mm and when I chamber a round under control the bolt always sticks just prior to seating the round and locking. Ejecting the case shows very hard ride/rub marks on the case especially the lower end all around uniform above the rim.
The rifle does chamber and extract with no issues though during live fire WHEN it feeds from a mag it likes which leads me to the next observation I noticed on the design of the rifle;
If you look at the barrel extension and feed ramps, they extend over and past the inside face of the upper receiver.
There is a gap under the barrel extension leaving two sharp steel ridges where the tip of any projectile will catch if the mag has enough slop in the magwell.
The play in some mags seems to be more pronounced with standard metal ar15 mags. However it's the same as in my AR15. The difference though is that my ar feed ramps extend into the inside face of the receiver under them and there is no sharp Ridge line for the projo tips to jam into.
Like having an ar15 barrel with standard feed ramps in the barrel but installed on an m4 newer upper receiver.
I'll post a pic.
I was able to replicate it just cycling the action by hand. It happened at least once a mag on the range.
It's a bad design to be honest.
The AR180 and the 180B both did NOT have this void under the barrel extension/feed ramps.
 
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Here is a close up of the barrel extension jutting out right over the machined void inside face of the receiver:
zzdzvl1.jpg


8FY3dW4.jpg


And here is exactly the replication of the feeding issue I have when live firing (I induced it by cycling the action by hand) Ammo is Federal XM 62gr FMJ Bulk 5.56mm:

d2qOi6s.jpg


OY4J0C2.jpg


They have basically engineered the old problem we used to have with standard old school barrel extension feed ramps installed in a modern style M4 upper receiver that has the deeper cuts meant for the modern M4 style feed ramps ie the "bad" combo in the image here (the bottom left combination):

OJhv5CU.jpg


I can remedy this with a dremel bit to cut the ramp a bit more sharply downward at the base then use a polishing bit to polish the ramps.
This would get the tips to always contact a ramped surface and prevent the tip from catching/jamming into the sharp ridge which it's doing now on every 3rd or 4th round depending on how much front to back tilt different mag brands have in the magwell of the rifle...
I'm hesitant to do this and void warranty and I also dread the 6 month turn around it would take to send it back in and have the work done/wait forever/ship it back etc

I'm a bit taken a back at this design overlook? It could easily be improved with little to no real extra cost to the manufacturer or the overall price of the gun.
They could beef up the area under the barrel extension to make it land flush with the bottom of the extension and cut the feed ramp notches/extensions into the inside face after installing the barrel?

I love this rifle. All around it's amazing like I've said but this is a bad aspect of the design in my humble opinion.
Anyone else having feeding issues experiencing this same barrel extension jamming issue as above? I keep hearing they "don't like certain mags" or whatever but for anyone having issues, what is the specific feed problem?
 
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^^^^^^^very impressive write up and very well detailed, Thank you for this

"I'm hesitant to do this and void warranty and I also dread the 6 month turn around it would take to send it back in and have the work done/wait forever/ship it back etc"

Please do send it back to wolverine, you do not want to avoid the warranty or mess it up doing it yourself, I'd like to see what they have to say by your findings on the "mag issue"

I'm far from am expert on these types of things, but I'm sure many others can reply in more detail to your post

Kodiak will send you a pre paid shipping label and I hear turn Around time is only a week for the guys who needed their chambers re-reamed, shouldn't be too long for them to correct this
 
Ironheart said:
^^^^^^^very impressive write up and very well detailed, Thank you for this

"I'm hesitant to do this and void warranty and I also dread the 6 month turn around it would take to send it back in and have the work done/wait forever/ship it back etc"

Please do send it back to wolverine, you do not want to avoid the warranty or mess it up doing it yourself, I'd like to see what they have to say by your findings on the "mag issue"

I'm far from am expert on these types of things, but I'm sure many others can reply in more detail to your post

Kodiak will send you a pre paid shipping label and I hear turn Around time is only a week for the guys who needed their chambers re-reamed, shouldn't be too long for them to correct this
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I tried forwarding it to Mr Wolverine but he is not accepting messages.
I did send it to Kodiak defense with a link to this page.

I may contact wolverine today at lunch break and see what they think. I also don't like how tight the chamber is.
I'm glad they are switching to the 5.56mm chamber instead of the wylde (IF that's the issue and it's not just chambers cut too tight).
I used to have a 20" ar with a wylde chamber and it never had issues chambering anything .223 or 5.56mm brass or steel case.
 
Travis Bickle said:
I tried forwarding it to Mr Wolverine but he is not accepting messages.
I did send it to Kodiak defense with a link to this page.

I may contact wolverine today at lunch break and see what they think. I also don't like how tight the chamber is.
I'm glad they are switching to the 5.56mm chamber instead of the wylde (IF that's the issue and it's not just chambers cut too tight).
I used to have a 20" ar with a wylde chamber and it never had issues chambering anything .223 or 5.56mm brass or steel case.
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Good morning Wes, a very good observation on your part. The feed ramp was overlooked initially as the rifle I was test firing had an upper that was exactly like yours, but she digested everything with no problem, over 5,000 rds with various mags. Shortly after production started this area was spotted and changes made. Very few left production like yours. I can’t give a serial number range as lowers got out of sequence and anyway the uppers are not serial numbered. I believe it only affects a few rifles and only with some magazines. You purchased a used rifle which is obviously an early one.

As always if anyone has an issue or concern with their WK180-C please contact Service@Kodiakarms.com
 
First, we do not advise home remedies such as taking a Dremel to your receiver; such modifications will obviously void the warranty.

Second, please consult the warranty card that was included with your rifle. Kodiak Defence is proud of the firearms we make. We stand behind them 100% and will of course remedy any mechanical fault. Please contact Service@KodiakDefence.com, being sure to include your rifle's Serial Number so we can begin the warranty process. While we can't promise specific turnaround times on warranty service, we haven't had a rifle in the shop yet for more than a week, let alone six months.

As John from Wolverine said above: this specific issue has already been fixed, however there may be some early rifles that made it into the world such as this one.

Thanks,

The Kodiak Defence Team
 
Wow, good eye Travis Bickle, and kudos to Mr. Wolverine and Kodiak for jumping on here and addressing this this with such transparency.

I checked my rifle and it does not have the issue with that gap, but my feeding still seemed a bit low. The rounds will go in but its pretty rough. Hera mags put the round up higher. however I have only tested the gun by slowly racking in dummy rounds and thats not the same as live fire. I will get out and do some shooting soon I hope!
 
Mr Wolverine said:
Good morning Wes, a very good observation on your part. The feed ramp was overlooked initially as the rifle I was test firing had an upper that was exactly like yours, but she digested everything with no problem, over 5,000 rds with various mags. Shortly after production started this area was spotted and changes made. Very few left production like yours. I can’t give a serial number range as lowers got out of sequence and anyway the uppers are not serial numbered. I believe it only affects a few rifles and only with some magazines. You purchased a used rifle which is obviously an early one.

As always if anyone has an issue or concern with their WK180-C please contact Service@Kodiakarms.com
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KodiakDefence said:
First, we do not advise home remedies such as taking a Dremel to your receiver; such modifications will obviously void the warranty.

Second, please consult the warranty card that was included with your rifle. Kodiak Defence is proud of the firearms we make. We stand behind them 100% and will of course remedy any mechanical fault. Please contact Service@KodiakDefence.com, being sure to include your rifle's Serial Number so we can begin the warranty process. While we can't promise specific turnaround times on warranty service, we haven't had a rifle in the shop yet for more than a week, let alone six months.

As John from Wolverine said above: this specific issue has already been fixed, however there may be some early rifles that made it into the world such as this one.

Thanks,

The Kodiak Defence Team
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Thanks guys!

I've contacted you both to your actual e-mail accounts now.
I'm interested in sending it back in to remedy the tight chamber and the feed ramp issue.
Good to know you guys have addressed this and future rifles will be machined sans void under the extension if that's the route you guys are going.

This rifle is f**cking incredible. Honestly. Aside from these minor hiccups in the early runs, you guys knocked a home run out of the stratosphere on this gun.
 
Travis Bickle said:
Thanks guys!

I've contacted you both to your actual e-mail accounts now.
I'm interested in sending it back in to remedy the tight chamber and the feed ramp issue.
Good to know you guys have addressed this and future rifles will be machined sans void under the extension if that's the route you guys are going.

This rifle is f**cking incredible. Honestly. Aside from these minor hiccups in the early runs, you guys knocked a home run out of the stratosphere on this gun.
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Glad you like it. Happy shooting!
 
Mr Wolverine said:
Thank you, but Is there really any other way to run a business?
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While it is great that both Wolverine and Kodiak have stated repeatedly they stand 100% behind the product, acknowledging rifles left the manufacturing process with improperly cut chambers and issuing a notification to purchasers of the potential issues and instructions to Owners on what to look for or do in the event they are seeing signs of an improperly cut chamber would be a start.
I'd wager a guess it is probably within reason that there are Owners out there with similar issues that are not on CGN and are not aware of the potential for an unsafe condition that could develop with such a chamber.
There are still those shooters out there that honestly think a Wylde cut chamber can't safely or reliably feed and function with factory .223 or 5.56 based on their experiences with the WK-180c (Some factory Hornady A or V-max loadings and Federal Independence come to mind).
Information was posted which disputed those erroneous theories on Wolverine's pages on this forum which was subsequently censored and deleted as 'spreading misinformation' or some other lame excuse.

While my rifle has performed flawlessly, I'm not particularly satisfied with the glossing over this chambering issue has been given by your firm or Kodiak.
 
beltfed said:
While it is great that both Wolverine and Kodiak have stated repeatedly they stand 100% behind the product, acknowledging rifles left the manufacturing process with improperly cut chambers and issuing a notification to purchasers of the potential issues and instructions to Owners on what to look for or do in the event they are seeing signs of an improperly cut chamber would be a start.
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If you bolt won't fully close, you should stop shooting immediately and contact Service@KodiakDefence.com. Pictures are helpful when requesting warranty service.

beltfed said:
I'd wager a guess it is probably within reason that there are Owners out there with similar issues that are not on CGN and are not aware of the potential for an unsafe condition that could develop with such a chamber.
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I would refer you to the manual available at: https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/Resources/en/ItemDocuments/KODWK180CONLINE/KODWK180CONLINE.pdf which says:

"IN CASE OF MALFUNCTION, STOP! REVIEW THIS MANUAL TO IDENTIFY AND RESOLVE THE PROBLEM. IF YOU CANNOT RESOLVE IT, CONTACT KODIAK DEFENCE INC."

beltfed said:
There are still those shooters out there that honestly think a Wylde cut chamber can't safely or reliably feed and function with factory .223 or 5.56 based on their experiences with the WK-180c (Some factory Hornady A or V-max loadings and Federal Independence come to mind).
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Those people are encouraged to contact Service@KodiakDefence.com. Because of customer feedback, we stopped producing rifles in .223 Wylde and have been producing them in 5.56 NATO instead. We have been very open about this change and the reasons for it.

beltfed said:
Information was posted which disputed those erroneous theories on Wolverine's pages on this forum which was subsequently censored and deleted as 'spreading misinformation' or some other lame excuse.
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We aren't aware of this, but again; and we cannot state this strongly enough: if you have a problem with your rifle, please contact us.

beltfed said:
While my rifle has performed flawlessly, I'm not particularly satisfied with the glossing over this chambering issue has been given by your firm or Kodiak.
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We are sorry to hear that while your rifle has performed flawlessly, you are not particularly satisfied. However, we have been very open from the start. We have done this because we are proud of the firearms we make and because that is the best way we can stand behind our product.

Yours,

The Kodiak Defence Team
 
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