NR for dangerous game in Ontario

Most are talking about rifles, but I am of the belief that a good quality pump 12 gauge with 00/slug/00 is the right combination for bears. And if you think there are no issues with bear/human contact, I know of at least 2 local people that lived to tell you their story.
 
Most are talking about rifles, but I am of the belief that a good quality pump 12 gauge with 00/slug/00 is the right combination for bears. And if you think there are no issues with bear/human contact, I know of at least 2 local people that lived to tell you their story.

The right combination is a magazine full of slugs, and a few rounds of 00 in the sidesaddle to be single loaded in case over-penetration poses a danger to others, usually in a town or camp ground. Attempting to be a fortune teller by stacking different loads in a shotgun magazine is a recipe for disaster, you'll have shot when you need a slug, and you have a slug when you expect a banger.
 
Last edited:
The right combination is a magazine full of slugs, and a few rounds of 00 in the sidesaddle to be single loaded in case over-penetration poses a danger to others, usually in a town or camp ground. Attempting to be a fortune teller by stacking different loads in a shotgun magazine is a recipe for disaster, you'll have shot when you need a slug, and you have a slug when you expect a banger.

Agreed... full slugs.
 
I have more experience than most with blackbears, having bowhunted them for forty years, and guided for close to 20 years... in that time I have had many close encounters, too many to relate here... many of these would be considered "frightening" or "terrifying" by many people... and yet, I do not consider black bears to be "dangerous" game. Of course black bears "can" be dangerous, they have the tools necessary to enact serious and swift damage, and bear attacks do happen and deaths have occurred... but as a species, black bears are disinclined to act out aggression toward humans with the intention to physically engage, not in the manner that is DNA coded into Grizzlies or buffalo. Whitetail deer have attacked and killed humans, as have elk and moose... black bears are animals that deserve respect, but not an unreasoned fear. Statistically speaking, you are perfectly safe forraying into the black bears habitat. Educating yourself on bear behaviour and biology is a respectful and worthwhile undertaking, it will help you navigate a bear encounter.

Having studied fish and wildlife biology and working briefly in the field, one of my undertakings was a study of bear attacks across North America. Over the course of my research, several commonalities became obvious in reading through the accounts of these attacks; first, how rare attacks actually are, given the amount of time bears and humans live in close proximity; second, how common it was for the attacks to be perpetrated by a bear that was injured and unable to forage naturally, many of the attacking bears were in poor physical condition, which indicates that they were acting "out of the norm;" and thirdly how poorly the humans involved in the incident managed their behaviour, often doing things to incite and attack...

There are cases of unprovoked attacks by seemingly predatory bears, usually larger dominant boars, but these are a small fraction of the small fraction of negative bear/human interactions.

So, IMO, if carrying a gun in the wilderness gives you a sense of comfort, or as most of us here on CGN, you just like guns, then by all means, carry and shoot... but the attitudes toward black bears fostered in the continuous litany of "bear defense" threads, really does the bears and ourselves a disservice in heightening an "irrational fear," rather than a "healthy respect."
 
In 55+ years of tracking through bush from Florida to northern Ontario to Alaska I've been charged by momma black bears twice.
Anybody who thinks a surly sow bb is not dangerous game is a lot tougher than me.
They can out fight, out swim, out climb and out run you.
 
In 55+ years of tracking through bush from Florida to northern Ontario to Alaska I've been charged by momma black bears twice.
Anybody who thinks a surly sow bb is not dangerous game is a lot tougher than me.
They can out fight, out swim, out climb and out run you.

I have been "bluff charged" too many times to count... the misunderstanding by justifiably frightened people is that this constitutes an aggressive, dangerous bear, but in fact the bluff is designed to "AVOID" any actual physical interaction... but I get how frightening it can be in the moment. For what it's worth, the proper reaction in the scenario, is to maintain a large, calm profile, speak low and slow and angle away or retreat slowly from the scene until you have removed yourself from the proximity of the bear... no harm done, healthy boundaries established.

As an aside; there is a perception that if you get between a sow and her cubs you are "dead meat." I have been in that position dozens of times and the normal reaction from a black bear sow is to "woof" and alarm, sending the cubs up a nearby tree and then for the sow to beat a hasty retreat, hopefully to draw any threat away from the cubs... there are times when the cubs have no safe retreat where the sow will try to get to them to lead them away (contrary to popular belief, often when there is danger present the sow just runs and leaves the cubs to figure it out), this attempt to get to the cubs is often interpreted as "an attack" by those who happen to be in her way... but the sow/cub scenario is also a time when "bluff charges" occur, as a means to warn perceived danger away from her offspring.
 
Last edited:
In Maine in the mid 80s I was on the other side of a big spruce tree from a good sized super pizzed momma black bear that was popping its teeth like a hot frying pan full of popping corn.
Didn't see her cubs but I knew they were close around.
My SW 629 was cocked and pointed but after I politely shouted "f-off" a few times she finally calmed down and ambled away.
 
I take an SKS berry picking and fishing. It'll do nicely for wolves too. I wouldn't worry about cougars, a coyote has more fight in it than a cougar, and really the cougar is a stealth hunter, so likely it'll be on you before you even know it is there, in which case you are wrestling with it. Being attacked by a cougar is the last thing I worry about, however, I do think they are a threat to children.

I don't think bear attacks are as rare as made out to be, I know multiple people who have been mauled, both Grizzlies and Black Bear were the culprits. I've also had people tell me about what was clearly predatory behavior from Black Bears. A dog will put a mama black bear up a tree. A grizzly (which you don't have in Ontario obviously) will often ignore 1 dog, but not multiple dogs.

Mountain Grizzlies have long been known to be more dangerous than those that live lower down.

I've seen cattle run off Black Bears and stare down wolves.
 
In Maine in the mid 80s I was on the other side of a big spruce tree from a good sized super pizzed momma black bear that was popping its teeth like a hot frying pan full of popping corn.
Didn't see her cubs but I knew they were close around.
My SW 629 was cocked and pointed but after I politely shouted "f-off" a few times she finally calmed down and ambled away.

Woofing, stamping, jaw popping, grunting, swaying, and bluff charges are all behaviours that bears use to "create space"... to establish a personal zone of safety... similar to when you are at a party with a boundaryless " close talker and you take a step back or take a side step to put the punchbowl between you. Speaking loudly (but not aggressively or shrilly, try not to sound like prey), and move away and all is well... much like you did... no harm, no foul.
 
When an angry black bear is around Ontario MNR liberal koolaid aside I want a loaded gun in my hand, not a tin can full of table condiment, A LOADED GUN.
Am I a redneck, old fashioned, gun happy yank? - GUILTY AS CHARGED.
I don't eat bear meat and am quite willing to ignore bears if they reciprocate the courtesy.
 
When an angry black bear is around Ontario MNR liberal koolaid aside I want a loaded gun in my hand, not a tin can full of table condiment, A LOADED GUN.
Am I a redneck, old fashioned, gun happy yank? - GUILTY AS CHARGED.
I don't eat bear meat and am quite willing to ignore bears if they reciprocate the courtesy.

By all means... have your loaded gun... and use it if you feel it is necessary... I usually have a carry gun of some sort for grouse and hares, etc... when it comes to bears, I would rather use my head than squeeze the trigger... it is actually more effective, given the state of mind of many of those who choose to squeeze the trigger. I am no bleeding heart Liberal, I hunt and shoot and support hunting and shooting... but would like to cut through the rhetoric and unreasoned fear when it comes to the black bear species.

BTW, I had a Smith 629 .44 Mag and loved that gun... would still have it if we could carry in the woods here in Canada.
 
Black bears attack more than grizzly bears, and black bears are more likely to be predatory towards humans than grizzlies. Many people (myself included) have a pretty cavalier attitude towards black bears but that can change pretty quickly when you realize you are being stalked by one. I've had it happen to me on more than one occasion, and it can be anything from comical to very very unnerving, depending on the size of the bear and how well armed I was.

When the biggest black bear I had ever seen stalked us while I was carrying my 20g OU grouse gun with #6 shot I was wishing I had some slugs
When a good sized bear kept advancing towards us even after repeatedly getting sprayed, and this went on for a very long time, I was wishing I had a gun, even a 20g with #6 shot
When a small "teenage bear" kept creeping after me when I was hunting and I had a 7mm RM in my hands, it was just sort of funny. Wish I had a video camera back then. Without a gun it would have been pretty scary, especially if you were a smaller person, as I'm sure part of the reason he was apprehensive was that I was twice his size.

If I was the OP I would just get whatever rifle or shotgun you wanted to own/shoot. It's unlikely you will be in a charging bear situation where you need to have a double rifle chambered in something .40 cal + using solids. :) But spend enough time in the woods and there is a good chance you will want to have a gun handy at one point.
 
By all means... have your loaded gun... and use it if you feel it is necessary... I usually have a carry gun of some sort for grouse and hares, etc... when it comes to bears, I would rather use my head than squeeze the trigger... it is actually more effective, given the state of mind of many of those who choose to squeeze the trigger. I am no bleeding heart Liberal, I hunt and shoot and support hunting and shooting... but would like to cut through the rhetoric and unreasoned fear when it comes to the black bear species.

BTW, I had a Smith 629 .44 Mag and loved that gun... would still have it if we could carry in the woods here in Canada.

I think a 44 mag Mares Leg in a holster is as good as it gets for belt carried guns in Canada.
Chiappa makes one with a 10.5" bbl that's also a takedown.
Fired one at a gun club and with practise you can shoot accurate enough to drop a target the size of a black bear if need be.
 
When an angry black bear is around Ontario MNR liberal koolaid aside I want a loaded gun in my hand, not a tin can full of table condiment, A LOADED GUN.
Am I a redneck, old fashioned, gun happy yank? - GUILTY AS CHARGED.
I don't eat bear meat and am quite willing to ignore bears if they reciprocate the courtesy.

Make that two people who think like that, there are bears around here and I don't go for long walks but if i did i would have something handy and not pots and pans
 
I think a 44 mag Mares Leg in a holster is as good as it gets for belt carried guns in Canada.
Chiappa makes one with a 10.5" bbl that's also a takedown.
Fired one at a gun club and with practise you can shoot accurate enough to drop a target the size of a black bear if need be.

pistola...Model 29 classic or Super Black Hawk both in 44mag, if you are talking pistol round HOWEVER used as a rifle round (which has been done for Years) the law of ballistics will truly come into play. Yes Pistols are Only paper punchers at a range, however Pistol rounds in rifles are not much more then companies selling brass and a fancy Mares leg. Chuck Hawkes explains this well (Chuckhawkes.com). 44/357 mags put in a rifle on that short brass has no punch (except point blank) left. The ballistics curve drops and drops fast.
When taking that caliber and fit it with a Rifle round (458 close 44 cal) and only the caliber, buffalo will drop, in that Mares leg it will bounce off and trouble for the trigger person comes into reality fast.
 
Last edited:
I carry a short barrel 12 gauge pump with slugs for bears
It’s never far from me when I am working in the bush or rural areas
I have spent my whole life in northwest Ontario and have only had a few occasions where I had to shoot bears
I have run into lots of bears in my travels
I would not hesitate to carry a 7600 pump with iron sights if it was all I had
 
pistola...Model 29 classic or Super Black Hawk both in 44mag, if you are talking pistol round HOWEVER used as a rifle round (which has been done for Years) the law of ballistics will truly come into play. Yes Pistols are Only paper punchers at a range, however Pistol rounds in rifles are not much more then companies selling brass and a fancy Mares leg. Chuck Hawkes explains this well (Chuckhawkes.com). 44/357 mags put in a rifle on that short brass has no punch (except point blank) left. The ballistics curve drops and drops fast.
When taking that caliber and fit it with a Rifle round (458 close 44 cal) and only the caliber, buffalo will drop, in that Mares leg it will bounce off and trouble for the trigger person comes into reality fast.

Please dont quote Chucky...
 
Back
Top Bottom