Ethical Dilemma

[huntinstuff]

I'm always shocked that there are folks in this day and age that are still puritanical, and superstitious.

Have you ever worried about sleeping in the same tent with another man also?

Nope. Real men have no problem with stuff like that. Sharing a tent with a fella and sharing a hot dog with a fella are two different things.

And it's too bad you are shocked by it. Men have to take a stand and uphold some morality or we won't be much better than dogs soon.

 

[crazy_davey]

Yup, you got it right on the nose. In the scenario we are discussing, yes I would consider that a real moral issue. Big time.

Go with your gut feeling on this one Randy, no one can change your morals or ethics. You are a stand up guy, if it doesn't sit right, don't go.

Only you can make the final decision. Plus, there are no moose where your headed anyways (inside joke)

 

[crazy_davey]

Have you ever worried about sleeping in the same tent with another man also?

I have! Christ, beans and a pile of game meat for supper makes almost any man smell like a rotting carcass when it comes out the other end.

After a meal like that a tent=gas chamber. Been there many times.

 

[huntinstuff]

Well, I know this was the correct forum to ask cause we have lots of guys and gals from all over and I kinda thought that leaving these two foreigners in the wall tent and taking a small tent for myself might be the best move.

I'm not really seeing a "win" for me on this one. I know I'm a bit behind the times when it comes to what is "acceptable" nowadays. Perhaps my wife is right when she says I was born 300yrs too late.

I appreciate all the input guys, really I do. All of it. But tomorrow I am going to inform my outfitter than I will not be going on this hunt. Perhaps he will see fit to send me out with someone else.

Thanks for working with me on this guys.

 

[sealhunter]

It is not behind the times to be considerate of your wife, but I would be disappointed to see you cancel the trip out of the fear of what could be perceived, rather than than adjust things for the particular situation.

I didn't see what size you tent was. Best thing, bring another and the wall tent for the clients. Next best. Separate yourself from them within the wall tent with a divider. If it's a cot setup, seems fine to me, but each guy knows his comfort zone, and much more importantly, his WIFE's comfort zone.

Please post pics of female client for further assesments!!! ; )

 

[agilent_one]

While morals and ethics are a personal thing, and as such I tend not to delve much into them - good on you for following what you believe.

I tend to think along the same lines as you, and am still not sure what I would've done under similar circumstances.

At the end of the day, you only have to answer to one person. Yourself.

 

[eltorro]

Huntinstuff.... I see this rather organizational dilemma took a path towards your right standing in a moral issue.

I don't know all the swedes, but I know them, if you know what I mean .
Your moral predicament would seem to them as if we're discussing on 5 pages if you should take 37 or 38 bullets for your rifle on that trip.

I understand the issue of going on a trip with another woman when you have a wife at home. This however is not a "rent-a-room-or-two" situation. Would you not share a bomb or storm shelter with her? Like Gatehouse said.... I wouldn't trust a woman that couldn't sleep with another guy in the same bed fearing what the temptation might bring.....
Faithfulness speaks from one's heart. I believe if there ever was a test, you passed it.
If you asked for advice..... mine is to go there and guide them and get them some good trophies, and that is all you should care about.

 

[effinggoof]

I have to chime in here.

If it makes you uncomfortable to share a tent with her, put her in the pup tent.

If Olaf the horny Swede wants to shag her, then he can share her pup tent.

If the whole issue bums you out....skip it...sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

 

[gitrdun]

I have to chime in here.

If it makes you uncomfortable to share a tent with her, put her in the pup tent.

If Olaf the horny Swede wants to shag her, then he can share her pup tent.

If the whole issue bums you out....skip it...sounds like more trouble than it's worth.

LOL well said and to the point, I like the last sentence.

 

[Gatehouse]

Yup, you got it right on the nose. In the scenario we are discussing, yes I would consider that a real moral issue. Big time.

Why cancel the hunt then? Just stay in a seperate tent. Easy.

 

[Wrong Way]

Option one: Quit thinking of her as a "woman", and start thinking of her as a "client". I'm SURE my wife would be pissed if her outfitter bailed only because she is a woman. Old fashioned or not....if you actually said what you are feeling to a client...ANY client, your reputation would be shot.

"I'm sorry, I can't guide you because you are female and (I don't trust you-I don't trust myself-'cause "what would people say"?)"

Option two: Do your job, keep the (paying) customers happy, and reduce the workload: Bring your wife along.

Option 3. First part of option two, and bring an extra tent.

At the end of the day, what it comes down to is that you have an obligation to the client (note I said "client"...NOT man or woman

 

[t-star]

when i was in my 20's we went camping with a bunch of HARD SHELL BAPTISTS- for those of you that don't know , that means no smoking, drinking or ###- well one of the other "campers" wrecked this one girl's tent and i had a 6 man wall - we rigged a wool blanket down the center and that was that- if i can do that under those circumstances , you certainly can

 

[Skip]

After working through all of this, I think you should not guide the hunt. Your personal morality is way too much in the way here. The couple have quite literally resolved any moral issues that are of concern to you, but you apparently, cannot. It is not your place to define their morality, and in most respects, there are no legal inhibitions in Canada, upon which you may draw support.

This makes you incompatible with this tour as a guide, hence, you should pass. In part, it depends to what extent you can provide each member with "separate" accommodations, ie each has their own tent. A makeshift wall is a sham and doesn't cut it.
If the male and female are not a couple then the courtesy would be to provide separate tents. You and he could bunk, if space is an issue. They've apparently indicated that they are more "accommodating" to the needs of the excursion than you are, so if that's case, provide her her own accommodation at a minimum, and consider a tent for each.

 

[huntinstuff]

After working through all of this, I think you should not guide the hunt. Your personal morality is way too much in the way here. The couple have quite literally resolved any moral issues that are of concern to you, but you apparently, cannot. It is not your place to define their morality, and in most respects, there are no legal inhibitions in Canada, upon which you may draw support.

This makes you incompatible with this tour as a guide, hence, you should pass. In part, it depends to what extent you can provide each member with "separate" accommodations, ie each has their own tent. A makeshift wall is a sham and doesn't cut it.
If the male and female are not a couple then the courtesy would be to provide separate tents. You and he could bunk, if space is an issue. They've apparently indicated that they are more "accommodating" to the needs of the excursion than you are, so if that's case, provide her her own accommodation at a minimum, and consider a tent for each.

I like your thinking and agree.

I have spoken to the outfitter and I will not be attending this hunt, nor will I attend future hunts with mixed genders.

I did make the suggestion of hiring a female guide tho......

I'm glad I posted this to you guys. Lots of good suggestions and ideas. I appreciate it. And I really appreciate the fact that you guys don't hold back. If you have something to say, you say it.

 

[bone-collector]

I'm glad I posted this to you guys. If you have something to say, you say it.

so your giving up a hunt cause theres a female involved? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ???

I have guided a few couples and a few friends (man/woman) I never look at guiding as real money cause its NOT but the opportunity to meet great people from around the world who love to hunt, yea some are as dumb as a stump but so what, man or woman dosnt matter shes not here looking to score with a smelly old guide thats for dam sure ,
and shes here for the adventure of the hunt and the scenery(no your not scenery) if anything take them out and treat her like she was your daughter if your that dam nervous, you will be suprised at how these groups of people act as it is , there nothing like what you are expecting, but then I guess you will never know as you just gave up on it

P.S. if I wasnt on my way to the northwest to build road I would take yer job

 

[fogducker]

so your giving up a hunt cause theres a female involved? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ???

like what he said

and i was just packing up my last bag

 

[huntinstuff]

so your giving up a hunt cause theres a female involved? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ???

I have guided a few couples and a few friends (man/woman) I never look at guiding as real money cause its NOT but the opportunity to meet great people from around the world who love to hunt, yea some are as dumb as a stump but so what, man or woman dosnt matter shes not here looking to score with a smelly old guide thats for dam sure ,
and shes here for the adventure of the hunt and the scenery(no your not scenery) if anything take them out and treat her like she was your daughter if your that dam nervous, you will be suprised at how these groups of people act as it is , there nothing like what you are expecting, but then I guess you will never know as you just gave up on it

P.S. if I wasnt on my way to the northwest to build road I would take yer job

Yes. That is absolutely correct. I cancelled myself from this hunt because there was a female involved. No other reason. Too bad you are building a road because I'd gladly give you the job and you could tell us how it went. Now we will never know.

In relation to what the client will think, well, frankly, I couldn't care less. They will have their hunt, just not with me.

Just a thought: You go over to a buddies place to see him. His wife answers the door and tells you he is out of town. She invites you in for a coffee. Would you go in?

My answer: Not in a million years. To me, that is inappropriate.

 

[crazy_davey]

Don't worry about what anyone else says Randy, they are not you. I know you don't guide for the money but for the enjoyment of it. Doesn't sound like to me that you would have enjoyed this one.

No big deal, there will be others that you will enjoy going on and feel comfortable at the same time.

 

[Gatehouse]

Just a thought: You go over to a buddies place to see him. His wife answers the door and tells you he is out of town. She invites you in for a coffee. Would you go in?
.

I dont' drink coffee, but if she invited me in for a beer, I woudl go.

I think it woudl be disrespectful to turn down an invitation like that. She offered you a coffee, not ###.

I treat a woman as a person, not as an extension of her husband.

 

[gitrdun]

I dont' drink coffee, but if she invited me in for a beer, I woudl go.

I think it woudl be disrespectful to turn down an invitation like that. She offered you a coffee, not ###.

I treat a woman as a person, not as an extension of her husband.

That's because there is a dying old code of honour & conduct that you don't understand and haven't been taught. But it does exist and many that I know live by it. Most are old timers, but some younger guys were raised by these old timers and follow their guidance.