Round Ball Accurracy?

Alias

Alias

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I have a Lyman Plains rifle that was originally in .45 cal. w/ 1:48 twist.

I tried different loads for years and the best I could ever get was about 6" 10-shots @ 100 yds using 65 gr Goex FFG,.010" wonder patch, wonder wad & .440 ball.

This gun had a pitted bore, so I blamed the poor accuracy on that and decided to replace it with a .54 cal Green Mountain barrel 1:70 twist.

I again tried different loads for about a year with .530" & .535" balls of different manufacturer's with patches from .010" thick to .018" (so tight I cracked my stock in loading) and finally settled on my most accurate load of 90 gr. Goex 2FG,homemade 3/16 thick felt was, wonderpatch & .530 ball.

The best group was 4-3/8" 10-shot @ 100yds, but 7-1/2" was the norm which was even worse than the .45!

I gave up on roundball, reamed out the barrel & installed a bullet liner.

Anyone else out there had similar disappointing roundball results?

Anyone out there had good results (pictues to prove?)
 
I have been shooting round ball through 50 cal hawken style percussion half stock and flintlock full stock guns for years. The accuracy is outstanding. Both gun have Les Bauska barrels with rifling twist od 1 in 60. I use a 0.490 cast round ball with 0.020 to 0.025 denim patching. At 50 yards they will punch out the x ring on a standard ABPA target, and at 100 they will average 2 to 3 inch groups. This is with standard open sights. I will not mention charge weights as they may not be suitable in your gun
It is not surprising that you cannot get good accuracy out of a 45 cal. M/L rifle. They were never really that good.
The 54 I have is a 1 in 66" twist, and I use a 0.535 cast ball.
Groups are on par with the 50 cal.
The Lyman plains rifle was never known for it's accuracy. If you had a good one it was unusual. Of all the commercial standard out of the box M/L rifles I have seen and used in 35 years of competitive BP shooting there are very few that stand out. The Pederzoli Tryon(Ithink that is the correct spelling) model was quite good, the Jonathan Browning Mountain rifle was also very good. The Parker Hale cal 577 P1853 Muskets and P1857 rifle were amongst the best, the short musketoon though was horrible.
The worst of them all were the "spaghetti hawkens"...the Cheap Italian guns, Euroarms etc. The other one was the CVA guns...there were horrible. The only guns that really performed well consistantly were custom built guns, with quality barrels. We usually used the Bauska barrel or the H&H match barrels.
Most commercial guns use a 15/16 or 7/8 inch across the flats octagon barrel. All of mine are 1 or 1 1/16 inch barrels, plus, most were rifled with a tioght 1 in 48 inch twist (Thompson Center were this way). The T/C would shoot a maxi ball absolutely fantastic, and round ball so-so.
I will see if I can find the keeper targets from over the years and post a pic.
Cheers
 
What about casting your own balls, are they better? I bought Hornady & speer and neither performed well for me even with a .018 thick patch that caused my stock to crack loading it.

Somewhere I read they could have air pockets? Maybe I should have weighed them?

Do you suggest pure lead for Balls, or is an alloy better?

I used precut patches, is there an advantage to cutting them from a bigger piece of material after starting the ball flush?

I tried someone's suggestion of spit patching & it caused pitting - any lube suggested?
 
RD ball is EX outa my Antique 50 70 Rolling block pistol!
Better than any bullets im useing a .510 dia Rd ball and full pyrodex loads it shoots a ragged 1 inch hole at 40 yds off a rest with like 10 shots.
kinda hard on the wrist after 10 rds tho! ;)

Im sticking with RD ball from now on in it.
It did OK with the hollow based bullets at .505 dia and about 500 gr but not as good as RD ball.
I think its got decent knock down power in a pinch.

 
Alias said:
What about casting your own balls, are they better? I bought Hornady & speer and neither performed well for me even with a .018 thick patch that caused my stock to crack loading it.

Somewhere I read they could have air pockets? Maybe I should have weighed them?

Do you suggest pure lead for Balls, or is an alloy better?

I used precut patches, is there an advantage to cutting them from a bigger piece of material after starting the ball flush?

I tried someone's suggestion of spit patching & it caused pitting - any lube suggested?
Click to expand...



ONLY PURE LEAD for muzzle-loading round balls.

Here is the trick to getting nearly perfect cast balls. If you have a lead furnace like Lee or Lyman, turn up the heat, not quite max but close to. Allow the lead to get as hot as possible without bubbling.
Then cast the balls...they should come out of the mold bright silver, then as they cool they will turm blue...sort of mica blue shimmer.

Use a sheet of patch material and seat with the ball starter just below the muzzle so you do not cut the ball as you trim the patch. Pre-cut patches are virtually impossible to center, and if they are undersize you might as well throw the balls downrange.

The lube I have used is the same cleaning solution I use...Moose Milk. I moisten the patch not soak.
BTW...Moose Milk (aka Milk of Mooses):D ya ever try to milk a moose?:eek:
1 Part Lestoil.
1 part water soluble oil
1 part hydogen peroxide
10 to 15 parts water.

Cheers
 
I get very good accuracy out of my .50 cal Lyman Deerstalker and my .54 Lyman Trade rifle, using round balls. The Deerstalker is very fussy in what it likes. I found that it liked a lightly lubed patch best with a large .495 ball. I have never seen a rifle with a 1 in 48" twist that woudn't shoot round balls good enough for hunting, but some take a lot of work to find the right powder, ball, patch, and lube combination.
 
Patch thickness and durability....big players in roundball accuracy. Try the denim with a .490. I little tougher to load, but the tight weave cotton is a lot more durable than coarse weave patch material - more resistant to the heat / pressure of combustion. When the patch starts to fray, the seal between projectile and barrel is comprimised. This will create inconstant pressure as the gas bleeds around the ball prior to exiting the muzzle, or gas venting unevenly around the ball as it exits the muzzle.

Check you spent patches for burning / fraying.

my 2 cents

Hakx
 
hakx said:
Patch thickness and durability....big players in roundball accuracy. Try the denim with a .490. I little tougher to load, but the tight weave cotton is a lot more durable than coarse weave patch material - more resistant to the heat / pressure of combustion. When the patch starts to fray, the seal between projectile and barrel is comprimised. This will create inconstant pressure as the gas bleeds around the ball prior to exiting the muzzle, or gas venting unevenly around the ball as it exits the muzzle.

Check you spent patches for burning / fraying.

my 2 cents

Hakx
Click to expand...

X2^
I seriously doubt using spit caused pitting unless you let the wet patch sit for days down the barrel (on top of a powder load) . I had a problem with pitting some years back because I assumed that WD40 was a good protector , however it does dry out and leave you vulnerable to pitting over long periods of storage.:( Now I relube my barrels more often even tho they may go unused for awhile.
 
Hello all!!

While it has been some time since I compete, I was able to get reason able accuracy. I have found that the hamonics of a barrel can play a big part and one will need to experiment. What I have found as one works from minimum loads to maximum load the groups will shrink, get lager and shrink again as groups progress. I have found that it is really important to change only one variable at a time and keep good notes.

I am not as good a shot as some and do most my off hand testing at 25 yards. The following is one of those 5 shot groups and these were very typical of the same rifle.

40grains.jpg


This rifle was italian made carbine kit that I had a gunsmith rework and finish. It has a 24" barrel that is 15/16 over the flats, and has a 1 in 60 twist. I determined the twist my self. I have burned alot of pyrodex P in my time and my rifle seems to like it.

Let me know if you want some more details

regards and all the best

R
 
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I've had success myself & seen others shoot like your 5-shot group at close range but have never seen a round ball target @ 100 yds any better than the fluke 4-3/8" 10-shot group I once got. Normally 7-1/2" 10 shot was the average.

Do you have any groups @ 100 yds?

Any load recomendations?
 
Alias:

Here I thought I was doing pretty good, and now you tell me I'm just avereage!! LOL!!

As I said previously, I'm not a particularly good shot. I will check, but doubt that I have any 100 yard targets.

That being said, it has been some time since I have had the old front stuff to the range, and Perhaps I should see what I can do.

regards and all the best

R
 
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