45-70 450gr. Load

moosehunter

moosehunter

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Just picked up a Chiapas (Armisport) 1874 Sharps in 45-70. Now I’m looking for a smokeless load for the Bullet Barn 450gr. Cast. Looking for lever gun pressures easier on the gun and the nut behind it. Also what’s a good wad to put in behind this non gas check bullet?
 
moosehunter said:
Just picked up a Chiapas (Armisport) 1874 Sharps in 45-70. Now I’m looking for a smokeless load for the Bullet Barn 450gr. Cast. Looking for lever gun pressures easier on the gun and the nut behind it. Also what’s a good wad to put in behind this non gas check bullet?
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I used to shoot a lot of those Bullet Barn 450gr bullets. I used Hodgon's Trapdoor data for a 485gr cast bullet and seated them out to touch the rifling ( see their reloading site ).

My load was right in the middle of their powder charge, using H-4198. I did substitute a magnum primer for more reliable ignition. The load was quite low pressure so I wasn't too worried about a little more pressure from the magnum primers.

It shot quite well to 200m.

Oh, and I wouldn't bother with a wad.

Chris.
 
That sounds like a good start. I’m looking for a bit more oooomph though. Eventually will be putting in for buffalo and I would love to take one off the cross sticks and if its not 400yds walk back till it is. I need at least 2000ft. Lbs at 100yds to be legal although the 405 and a hat full of black powder seemed to work wonders in the late 1800’s.
 
Start with 32 grains of H4198, that is a relitavely mild load. With that long barrel you should be in the 1400 fps range. Work up slowly until you get to 1600-1650 fps. That will give you your 2000 ft lbs at 100 yards. Shoot for the head, just below the horn, he will drop like a sac. Good luck

**** DISCLAIMER***** this is a safe load, I am in no way responsible for your ####-ups, don’t be stupid!
 
moosehunter said:
That sounds like a good start. I’m looking for a bit more oooomph though. Eventually will be putting in for buffalo and I would love to take one off the cross sticks and if its not 400yds walk back till it is. I need at least 2000ft. Lbs at 100yds to be legal although the 405 and a hat full of black powder seemed to work wonders in the late 1800’s.
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AS a long time 74 sharps action shooter I would recommend you go to a modern block bolt lock (read that as "not a toggle action 76) Lever gun if you want that much oomf. Gunlaker gives you very sage advise on sticking with Trapdoor level loads with an 1874 action.
 
That's not a very high BC bullet because of the big flat nose. Based on the JBM ballistics calculator and your requirement of 2000 ft lbs energy at 100 yards you'd probably need a muzzle velocity of 1600 fps or maybe a bit higher. That might be doable in a low pressure load given the long barrel on your Sharps. I never chronied mine, but I was likely at around 1300 fps in a 22" barrel with 30gr H-4198.

Chris.
 
I shoot 12.5 grains of trail boss behind a .530grn lyman postel.
When the bullet hits a target at 100 yrds you here it,i knocked the steel swinging gong off the chains at 200 yards.I dont know what the energy is but its going to hurt what it hits
 
Sounds like a good recipe. I need FPS and numbers to prove 2000 ft lbs at 100 yds before a guide and the fish cops will give me the ok to hunt with the rifle. I know the 405gr bullet at 1100 FPS nearly wiped out the buffalo at over 500yds many times but they used to hang murderers and pedophiles to. Some things havent improved.
 
moosehunter said:
Just picked up a Chiapas (Armisport) 1874 Sharps in 45-70. Now I’m looking for a smokeless load for the Bullet Barn 450gr. Cast. Looking for lever gun pressures easier on the gun and the nut behind it. Also what’s a good wad to put in behind this non gas check bullet?
Click to expand...

Hi,
I am an avid 45-70 shooter.
for your lead bullet, you can punch out 1/8" felt wads then soak them in a heated mix of 75% bees wax and 25% olive oil seat the wads on the powder behind the sized and lubed bullet, or you can powder coat the bullet with powder coating from Princess Auto, an 8 oz. bottle will do over a thousand bullets.
It is easy to do, if this interests you drop me a line and I will walk you through it.
I stopped using gas checks when their prices rose so high.
A good starting load for your 450 grain bullet is 33 grains of IMR 3031 powder.
I shoot a 330 grain hollow point bullet at 1725 fps, and it is very accurate.
Best regards!
Fred
 
I like the idea of the Princess Auto powder coating. I just ordered in 200 390gr gas checked from The Bullet Barn. Had I known this things would have been different. I was loading 50gr. H322 behind this bullet getting 1950fps. Hard on the body. Dropped to 47.5gr velocity at 1905fps. Better but still gets your attention. Will drop it to 46gr. A little over 1800fps would suit me fine.
 
I'd forget about turning your 45-70 into a sub-.458 Win mag or go with 45-90 or 45-110.

I own five 45-70s; two lever guns, two Shiloh '74s and an H&R Trapdoor. My '86 Browning has taken me two moose with smokeless loads that were BP equivalents - 28 grs 5744 under cast Lyman 457193 RNFP 420 gr bullets. "Bang!" - moose down.

I load the same charge under 350 gr bullets for a little more velocity. Call it an "Express" load. 36 grs Varget under 350/450 gr bullets also works well and are no slouch in hitting power.

Everything I've read in BPCN news advises against the use of wads with smokeless powders in large volume cases.

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You won't live long enough to learn everything from your own".
 
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