Hunting without PAL

some of you folks are not seeing the big picture here and not reading the act as it should be read.

defending your life from imminent harm is a "lawful use" of a firearm..... REGARDLESS OF BEING A PAL HOLDER OR NOT
Hunting with a firearm is a "lawful use" of a firearm ....... REGARDLESS OF BEING A PAL HOLDER OR NOT.
as for the hunting scenario..... subsection B of the lending section says it very clearly that firearms may be lent and borrowed for "lawful use" and both scenarios above are lawful uses of firearms in Canada
Show me where a non pal holder has been charged for aquiring a firearm and defending themselves from imminent harm. I think there was a recent case of this posted to cgn that would seem to agree with the point I'm trying to make.
 
45ACPKING said:
some of you folks are not seeing the big picture here and not reading the act as it should be read.

defending your life from imminent harm is a "lawful use" of a firearm..... REGARDLESS OF BEING A PAL HOLDER OR NOT
Hunting with a firearm is a "lawful use" of a firearm ....... REGARDLESS OF BEING A PAL HOLDER OR NOT.
as for the hunting scenario..... subsection B of the lending section says it very clearly that firearms may be lent and borrowed for "lawful use" and both scenarios above are lawful uses of firearms in Canada
Show me where a non pal holder has been charged for aquiring a firearm and defending themselves from imminent harm. I think there was a recent case of this posted to cgn that would seem to agree with the point I'm trying to make.
Click to expand...

Ok, so I think you need to go out and find a friend without a PAL but a hunting license. Lend them your firearm and call out the cops and the COs, let us all know how it turns out.
 
Fox said:
Ok, so I think you need to go out and find a friend without a PAL but a hunting license. Lend them your firearm and call out the cops and the COs, let us all know how it turns out.
Click to expand...

i don't need to friend.
3 years ago while driving out the augier road in region 6, BC on exactly the 26th of october at approximately noon. Our group of 3 hunters driving in 2 vehicles were stopped at a joint rcmp/BC conservation service and first nations observers check point. Our identification , our firearms, our tags and licenses, our vehicles and insurance on trucks and atvs were checked, our two moose checked. Here's the rub.... one of the tags cut belonged to a member of our group that does not have a firearms license. He was never prohibitted from getting one.... just never bothered. He does hunt with a bow but hunts with us on the rifle trips when he can get away.

So tell me why my friend did not get charged with posessing and using a firearm to shoot the moose he tagged out. Tell me why I did not get charged with giving him that firearm to use while we hunted together. Even though we were fully inspected by the two official services that could charge us for those offenses.

Why?
because the firearm was loaned to a non PAL holder for a "lawful purpose"

Now.... if i lent my neighbor my shotgun , assuming he has no PAL , and he discharged that firearm at a black bear in the backyard here in backwoods BC , even with non lethal rounds...... I'm in big trouble and so is he because the act itself is not lawful.... too close to occupied buildings under the wildlife act being just one violation in the scenario.
And I would get charged because I did not lend the firearm for a "lawful purpose"

do you guys get it now???

I've had 3 occasions in life where I have needed to be before a judge over some fairly serious matters with life long implications. I represented myself in all three matters and was entirely successfull. In one such situation I was up against the honorable judge donna senniw (spelling) when she was a lawyer for the province. A few years later she was the judge presiding the specific case at the time. I was also successful in representing myself in those matters and her comments to me in chambers after the proceedings were that I missed my calling life LOL
so while I don't fancy myself a lawyer..... I have a very good grasp on the intentions of written law.
I'll stick to my beliefs on the topic we are discussing here and would not hesitate to offer it as advice to those I interact with.
 
Last edited:
45ACPKING said:
i don't need to friend.
3 years ago while driving out the augier road in region 6, BC on exactly the 26th of october at approximately noon. Our group of 3 hunters driving in 2 vehicles were stopped at a joint rcmp/BC conservation service and first nations observers check point. Our identification , our firearms, our tags and licenses, our vehicles and insurance on trucks and atvs were checked, our two moose checked. Here's the rub.... one of the tags cut belonged to a member of our group that does not have a firearms license. He was never prohibitted from getting one.... just never bothered. He does hunt with a bow but hunts with us on the rifle trips when he can get away.

So tell me why my friend did not get charged with posessing and using a firearm to shoot the moose he tagged out. Tell me why I did not get charged with giving him that firearm to use while we hunted together. Even though we were fully inspected by the two official services that could charge us for those offenses.

Why?
because the firearm was loaned to a non PAL holder for a "lawful purpose"

Now.... if i lent my neighbor my shotgun , assuming he has no PAL , and he discharged that firearm at a black bear in the backyard here in backwoods BC , even with non lethal rounds...... I'm in big trouble and so is he because the act itself is not lawful.... too close to occupied buildings under the wildlife act being just one violation in the scenario.
And I would get charged because I did not lend the firearm for a "lawful purpose"

do you guys get it now???
Click to expand...

So no proof of the guy actually shooting a gun or handling a gun outside of direct supervision of a person with a PAL, so no justification for a charge as nothing is seen to have gone wrong.

What has been stated over and over again is direct supervision of a PAL holder, they do not define it.

What your post says is that all hunting groups only need to have one member with a PAL, bring all the guns to the camp and distribute at the start of the hunt and collect at the end, nothing illegal about that.
 
Fox said:
So no proof of the guy actually shooting a gun or handling a gun outside of direct supervision of a person with a PAL, so no justification for a charge as nothing is seen to have gone wrong.
Click to expand...

sure there was proof..... they asked who killed this animal..... buddy presented all his tags but no firearms license just a hunting license and the cancelled tag. He was the shooter. The firearms were all inspected, camper and vehicles searched for handguns and other infractions. The rcmp members were specifically there for firearms act infractions and motor vehicle infractions. If there were violations in paperwork, or contents of our vehicles under any federal or provincial act there would have been charges. Let's be real here.

Fox said:
What has been stated over and over again is direct supervision of a PAL holder, they do not define it.

What your post says is that all hunting groups only need to have one member with a PAL, bring all the guns to the camp and distribute at the start of the hunt and collect at the end, nothing illegal about that.
Click to expand...

that is not what I've been saying at all.
the law is quite clear
is the firearm being lent for a lawful purpose?
is the lender in direct supervision of the borrower as defined under the act?

Therefore..... if the borrower is hunting, while under the direct supervision.... it's perfectly legal
We are far from talking about handing out firearms to non pal holders whilst they go thier merry way into the woods unsupervised. If you got that from anything I've posted in this thread, I can't help you.

there are LEO's on this site and conservation officers as well. I'd like to hear from them and have them speak to what I've described as legal. I already know the answer.

one of my aquaintances who comes shooting with me on crown land on his days off is an rcmp member in our community. We actually met when him and his partner rolled up on us while shooting a GM6 Lynx and a collection of rifles that included NR semis like LRB M25 , troy chassis M14sa, Tavor and a few other NR semis and bolt guns. We had at least a dozen rifles between the 7 or 8 people that we gathered up for the shooting day high in the hills north of Mahood lake. So since that day , the one rcmp member is always given the invite. He asked me if he could "tag along" on a daily deer excursion locally but he doesn't have a hunting license/core. I had to tell him no that day but told him he could get the permit to accompany under BC's hunting regs.
So he can't come with me without a hunting license, even to just tag along to see what it's about but at the same time he can come with us with his NR firearms shooting at targets on crown land.
Incidentally, the initial interaction with this rcmp, as I said, was a group of us shooting scary rifles on crown land. Only 3 of us in that group had firearms licenses..... so why did everyone not get charged for us letting them handle and shoot the firearms?

again.... the law is clear
lending/borrowing for a "lawful purpose"
and the necessary "supervision" which as explained in the BC wildlife act..... is pretty simple to understand and follow. I suppose those with bad judgement and those who cannot understand the intention of such laws..... should not lend firearms. I will continue to do so, to responsible people who are not otherwise prohibitted from posessing firearms, under my supervision. I will do this, as many thousands of other canadian gun owners have, to encourage new shooters and hunters and do so in a lawful and safe manner..... according to the provisions of the firearms act.

pretty simple stuff.
 
Last edited:
rhino519 said:
someone worried about ratting out sounds like a poacher
Click to expand...
I guess you'll next mention that my hatred for the Government goons, the RCMP, makes me a criminal ? I wonder what you'd tell to first nations who have been taken by force from their families by the same goons ? There isn't much love for either CO or RCMP there either...
 
your valid hunting license maybe more important than your PAL, i think as long as there is only one person shooting between the two of you. But am i allow to hunt / bring with me more than 1 gun?
 
i dropped my shotgun off at the rcmp det. in stewart while my wife and i went over to hyder.told the duty officer i was using it for predator control while in camp.showed my pal and the wife told them she didn't have one.no problem,so i call bs. on ar180shooter.
 
Fox said:
Please go back and look at the regulations.

There are hunts that are "Bow Only No Dogs" and there are general firearms seasons. In most WMUs in Ontario the general season as with the "Muzzleloader" season in December has bows included with the guns, in most. Controlled hunts are dependent on the zone, some allow bows and some do not but since it is a general gun season the use of hunter orange is required.

Hunted the "Muzzleloader" season the last 2 years with a crossbow due to the lack of a muzzleloader.
Click to expand...

yes, the difference though is where there is rifle season, bow season closes, muzzies and shutguns seem fine for the gov to be used alongside bows
 
Butcherbill said:
Ditch the OPP downer and invite your friends that like to be outdoors, I’d rather have people like that along then someone that can’t forget about the job the whole time they’re in the woods with their friends hunting.
Click to expand...

ahh, hard no, we have space in trucks for hunters, no tourists, and btw all of us enjoy the outdoors, the rule of no license no go is more to protect people that would like to go with us then the gang, they would be the ones explaining to the jp what were they up to
 
essorx said:
I guess you'll next mention that my hatred for the Government goons, the RCMP, makes me a criminal ? I wonder what you'd tell to first nations who have been taken by force from their families by the same goons ? There isn't much love for either CO or RCMP there either...
Click to expand...


you know what the root word of ‘assumtion’ is? yeah, that’s what i think of you
 
IMO this "RHINO OOP" is a someone trying to strip rights on legal gun owners and hunters wherever it can. And yes, I agree to it's line "stupid hurts:p" - so it must be in pain now!

But as others had said "there is no cure for stupid".
 
so i had a conversation today with my local rcmp aquaintance.
i asked him what he thought of this topic from an law enforcement point of view and we looked at both the firearms act , lending firearms section and also the wildlife act here in bc.
These are basically the things he said to me as far as interpretation.....
if a person has a valid bc wildlife ID and hunting license, it is proof they have passed a firearms education course as part of the prerequisite to aquiring the CORE certificate.
So if the lender knows this, the lender has a reason to believe that the borrower has a basic understanding of firearms handling and use
Also, if the firearm is being lent for the purpose of hunting , this is a lawful reason to be in posession of and use of firearms.
So the first section of the code on lending/borrowing are satisfied when it comes to lending a firearm to a non PAL holder for the purpose of hunting.

so as long as said borrower has a valid hunting license and does not have a firearms prohibition or weapon prohibition order..... the lender is not in violation of the act.

it makes perfect sense to me.

we both agreed that the bc wildlife also clearly defines the terms when it comes to supervising a non pal holder in the field and thought it was easy to understand using common sense if both hunters were carrying firearms.
 
riversrest said:
IMO this "RHINO OOP" is a someone trying to strip rights on legal gun owners and hunters wherever it can. And yes, I agree to it's line "stupid hurts:p" - so it must be in pain now!

But as others had said "there is no cure for stupid".
Click to expand...

??? i hope you didn’t hurt yourself typing this up, where did you get this “someone trying to strip blah blah” from?
 
In Ontario, in a few short weeks this topic will be clarified in no uncertain terms. The Wynne Liberals changed the hunting regs to say your ONT hunting licence is not valid unless you are in possession of a PAL. Another haunting from the liberal provincial douche bags
 
hunter148 said:
In Ontario, in a few short weeks this topic will be clarified in no uncertain terms. The Wynne Liberals changed the hunting regs to say your ONT hunting licence is not valid unless you are in possession of a PAL. Another haunting from the liberal provincial douche bags
Click to expand...

That's incorrect. You need to read it,again. Resident hunters H1 and H2 (archery only) license versions will still be available.
 
Last edited:
rhino519 said:
yes, the difference though is where there is rifle season, bow season closes, muzzies and shutguns seem fine for the gov to be used alongside bows
Click to expand...

That's incorrect. Nothing prevents the use of archery equipment at the same time as any gun hunt except during limited,controlled hunts in several WMU's in south western Ontario,the only difference being that blaze orange is required during all Ontario big game gun hunts including the December muzzle loader 6 day hunt in some WMU's.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom