Sensible double for north america

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brybenn

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I have a love of double guns especially sxs rifles. I own a cheap sxs in 4570 in which has been great. I also plan on getting a sxs chambered in 450/400 3" nitro. While both chamberings can be used on any big game ive been thinking about a more suitable double for north america. Something like a 275 flanged. Something at home for coyotes to deer to black bear and maybe the odd walk in pursuit of moose.
My 4570 is regulated for 30 yards for bear baiting and the 450/400 will be an elegant gift to myself for when i pay off my house.
I was curious what everyones thoughts about a working grade double for our game
 
I went the double route a number of times... I love the "idea" of a double rifle and the "history" of a double rifle... but in NA, on non-dangerous game, it loses much of it's utility... ultimately I embraced the single shot concept and settled on the Ruger No.1 as the best blend of availability, configurations, quality, value, accuracy and handling... particularly the Alexander Henry configurations. I have fired thousands of rounds and taken dozens of big game animals with No.1's... I have worked a lot on quick follow up shots, by shooting with a second round between the index and middle finger of my forehand, and it is surprising how quickly you can become with the eject/load/aim/fire sequence.

All that said... I still love double rifles... I will never own the high end versions (H&H etc...), but I could possibly see a pair of Merkel's in 7X57R and 9.3X74R, somewhere in my future.

Or... .30/06 & .375 H&H ;)
 
I guess it is different for BC, but I would choose a 9.3x74R built on a small frame. How about a .303 British?
 
brybenn said:
I have a love of double guns especially sxs rifles. I own a cheap sxs in 4570 in which has been great. I also plan on getting a sxs chambered in 450/400 3" nitro. While both chamberings can be used on any big game ive been thinking about a more suitable double for north america. Something like a 275 flanged. Something at home for coyotes to deer to black bear and maybe the odd walk in pursuit of moose.
My 4570 is regulated for 30 yards for bear baiting and the 450/400 will be an elegant gift to myself for when i pay off my house.
I was curious what everyones thoughts about a working grade double for our game
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I hunted in Africa with a Verney Carron double rifle chambered in 450/400 3" NE back in 2011.

If was to do it again, I would go with the Heym 88B in a heartbeat. The VC was a poorly designed disappointment that failed literally minutes before embarking on a day of cape buffalo hunting.

For North America, my preference is a single shot, Ruger Number 1 International chambered in 7x57. (Also had one of those in 450/400 3" NE and found it to be a bit light for the round).

The best of the bunch, IMHO, is the Heym Express rifle in 404 Jeffrey. Pure lethal magic.

Whatever your choice, have fun with it! (and talk to Ralf Martini before you buy anything).
 
Guess I've always figured North America isn't the place for them. Not really suited to long distance shooting and there's no one to tap you on the shoulder and say, Take the shot. :)

grizz
 
brybenn said:
I have a love of double guns especially sxs rifles. I own a cheap sxs in 4570 in which has been great. I also plan on getting a sxs chambered in 450/400 3" nitro. While both chamberings can be used on any big game ive been thinking about a more suitable double for north america. Something like a 275 flanged. Something at home for coyotes to deer to black bear and maybe the odd walk in pursuit of moose.
My 4570 is regulated for 30 yards for bear baiting and the 450/400 will be an elegant gift to myself for when i pay off my house.
I was curious what everyones thoughts about a working grade double for our game
Click to expand...

I like the word 'cheap". What is it?
 
kjohn said:
Likely a Baikal?? Not "cheap" by my standards. :p

My buddy Deaner has, or maybe had one. I've never shot it, so I can't comment on how it works.
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Baikal makes one in 30-06. I handled one at a local gun shop --- price was $670. One of the reasons that double rifles are so expensive is the cost of labor when regulating the barrels. (Getting them to shoot to approximately the same point of impact.) This is usually done with one type of ammunition, and using a different bullet weight or load can have one barrel shooting out into left field and the other sending rounds toward the moon.
 
A 7x65R would likely be perfect for N. America. .30 Super flanged would be a good choice, though brass is a problem.

If you're having a rifle built you could always invent your own and go wildcat. A 9.3x74R case necked down to .30 or .33 would cover a lot of ground.
 
I wouldn't have minded a 300R H&H, but, they didn't want to build it, the 30R Blaser is the next closest thing to it, roughly a 30-06AI with a rim, and maybe a hair more power. RWS only, but, it is good brass. There are some deals in the US now, prices are dropping on the used ones, but, are mostly big bores such as the 470 and 500NE, small cal are out there, but, far and few between, and they usually hold a better resale value.
I've seen a FAIR combo set 20ga/30R for 7000, Chapuis are available, and there can be some deals around on Searcy's, Merkel's are around, Kreighoff's are around
I looked at what I'd shot over the years, predominantly under 150yds, double with irons will do that just fine, that's why I decided to get one. I will lose on resale, but, I was aware of that going in, and decided it was what I wanted, may as well have it, can't take the money with me. I wanted a nice SxS, that was all there was to it. Nothing wrong with a 6.5x57R or a 7x57R or a 7x65R or an 8x57R either, they'll all do the job. I also had a Recknagel QD swingoff mount put on it, so, if necessary, I can use a scope on it in the event I need a bit longer shot or have to thread the needle a bit on a shot.
Been a learning curve on shooting it, but, it has been a lot of fun, it is a nice gun to carry in the bush, points like a shotgun and does what needs doing.
 
I know what a double rifle is. This work of art is 8x60R. An excellent North American game caliber.

It is the "cheap" part I am trying to grasp. Under $1000 is cheap.

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buffdog said:
Baikal makes one in 30-06. I handled one at a local gun shop --- price was $670. One of the reasons that double rifles are so expensive is the cost of labor when regulating the barrels. (Getting them to shoot to approximately the same point of impact.) This is usually done with one type of ammunition, and using a different bullet weight or load can have one barrel shooting out into left field and the other sending rounds toward the moon.
Click to expand...

I've shot the Baikal Artemida in 45-70 and found 'er to be a decent handling unit & well built for the job. One can adjust the one barrel against the other to regulate impact. That's the feature that makes 'em affordable for most folks. They offer these in .308 as well. I'd have one fer sure if it came as a hammer gun.

BaikalMP-221 Artemida.jpg
 

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Ganderite said:
I like the word 'cheap". What is it?
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Baikal 4570. I love it. True work horse and im not afraid to use it. Its been thru some extreme weather and been strapped to a front of a quad for well over 1500 miles. Shows a lil wear in the bluing is all. Kolpin rifle Ys polished where the barrels rest
 
Ive got baikal double's in 45/70 and 30-06 and wont be getting rid of either anytime soon.
Done a fair bit of stoning and filing especially on the 45/70 so that it would reliably open up further, ripped out the auto safety bar in each and both work very well now. They need a bit of love out of the box but once its done you've got a working double rifle with chrome bores that you don't mind banging through the bush with. Each to their own
 
My baikal 4570 handles extremely well. The triggers are not great but usable. Its a close range gun. Its also built on a frame very similar to the ij58 sxs 12ga of which ive fired over 65000 rnds thru so it points extremely naturally for me. I had one in 3006 which would group 2 very tight groups with about 1.75" between them horizontally and 1/2" vertical spread. Not to shabby but for me doubles should have a rim. I sold it. I was thinking 275rimmed or 375 rimmed nitro express. Not the 375 flanged magnum.
Basically id like one built like an upland game gun but a rifle for hunting timber. Close range to 125 yards. 25/35 would be nice but would limit it to wolf and deer. I like a lil more bullet if bear or moose are on the menu
Ive shot and handled many ruger #1 guns and i like them but they just dontfeel right and i find they dont point where i look. Sucks as there was a 450/400 in the ee for quite some time
A rimmed 8mm would be interesting.
I have a 458wm in which will be my heavy rifle for Africa so i dont need a big bore double. Im looking for a smaller medium bore or small bore rimmed cartridge that would allow a light fast double similar to a fine sxs shotgun in weight.
As for the 9.3x74r most guns are in the 9.5 to 10lb range which seems heavy for the low pressure cartridge.
 
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