8mm Swedish vs 8mm Mauser

V

Volhv

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
9   0   0
Location
Fraser Valley
s2tz82.jpg


Left 8x63 (Swedish) with 218 grain projectile (1941 dated)
Right 8x57 (Czechoslovakian) 178 grain projectile (1949 dated)

The Czech stuff has a mild steel core, and projectile is identical to the 7.9 German SME. This makes sense because 7.9 cartridges and K98k rifles were made there to German spec, during occupation.
(I chose the Czech for this picture instead of a German for aesthetic reasons. Same case and jacket material as the Swede)

Cannelure on the Swede is 0.063" closer to the tip than the Czech/German stuff.
Projectile length is also 0.012" longer on the Swede.
As far as I can tell, the boat tail and ogive is identical.

When reloading the Swedish bullets in 8x57 I'm thinking seating it to the cannelure is a bad idea as it would take up precious case volume.
German 7.9 spec is 3.173" (80.6mm) OAL
CIP lists 3.228" as the OAL and most reloading manuals, from what I've seen list 3.25 as the MAX OAL
 
Last edited:
Andy and SKSCanuck have posted a lot about the differences. Pretty well the only good result is to pull the 8x63 components and reload in 8x57 cases.
 
Interesting - the bullets are quite similar in dimensions, but not in weight. The weight difference is on account of the Swedish bullet having a lead core, and the Czech a lead-steel core.

Using the Swedish 218 gr bullets in the 8X57, I ignore the cannelure and load to max mag length, or max OAL to the rifling, whichever is shorter, 3.250" being what I use in my Persian Mauser.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1173651-Some-8X57-Loads-with-a-218-gr-Bullet?

I use 46.0 grs of the Swedish powder in the 8X57 with the 218 gr bullet.
 
Andy said:
Interesting - the bullets are quite similar in dimensions, but not in weight. The weight difference is on account of the Swedish bullet having a lead core, and the Czech a lead-steel core.

Using the Swedish 218 gr bullets in the 8X57, I ignore the cannelure and load to max mag length, or max OAL to the rifling, whichever is shorter, 3.250" being what I use in my Persian Mauser.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1173651-Some-8X57-Loads-with-a-218-gr-Bullet?

I use 46.0 grs of the Swedish powder in the 8X57 with the 218 gr bullet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that! :) I was trying to decide how much of the Swedish powder to load with the 218 gr bullet in the 8mmMauser case
I will try your suggestion
 
Deathrawt said:
Thanks for that! :) I was trying to decide how much of the Swedish powder to load with the 218 gr bullet in the 8mmMauser case
I will try your suggestion
Click to expand...

Although I didn't consider that a Max Load (it produced 2150 fps), I recommend you start a bit lower than that and go no higher than 2350 fps.
 
If it produced 2150 fps it should be good enough for the mg34 and k98. I think the orig German specs was around 2400fps?
I will take your suggestion and go a grain or two less to see if it cycles the gun properly
If it's a little on the hot side I can always put the bigger booster cone in to tame the recoil a bit
 
German spec for the 197.5 grain lead core projectile was listed at 2477 fps. The 178 grain steel core was a little bit faster at 2525 fps. While lighter it was longer, so they couldn't get it much faster as case volume was dimminished. A different powder would have changed things. And it did, they did use a different powder to achieve higher velocities, but those rounds were made to be used in the aircraft machineguns.

Oh, and we must really thank Andy for all the work and research he has done on the 8x63.
 
Did a comparison between the German and Swede powder, because it looked the same to me when I pulled my first 8x63.

2hf80ie.jpg

675wdc.jpg

2eozlvd.jpg


Swede top,
German bottom.
Sightly darker is the swede. Same size and shape flakes.

Weighed out 42 grains of each, and the Swede has less volume. Will load 198 grain ppu projectiles and see what we get for velocity.
 
It would be interesting to load a few rounds charged with the same amount, but with different powders. For example; Swedish; a 4895; and 4064, and compare MV's.
 
I loaded 2 rounds each with 3 different powders. Projectile was 198 grain PPU FMJ. As close you can really get to the German 197.5.
Casings were S&B, with CCI 200 primers

42 grains of Swedeish flake pulled from 1941 8x63 cartridges.
1905 and 1958 fps

42 grains of IMR4064
2130 and 2092 fps

42 grains of German flake pulled from ww2 7.9 cartridges.
2525 and 2530 fps
This load gives the same (a bit higher) velocity as the ww2 German 197.5 cartridge. Those were loaded with 44 grains due to larger case capacity compared to the modern casings we use.
 
Nice work.

So in the 8X57, that lot of 8X63 powder presents as a bit slower than the lot of IMR-4064 you tested and much slower than the German powder, with that 198 gr bullet. It's not a dangerous assumption to assume that the same would apply with the pulled 218 gr Swedish bullet. It's consistent with what I've experienced with the 8X57 too.

This suggests that with the 8X63 powder, you can go as high as 1-2 grs over the published Max for IMR-4064.
 
Last edited:
Tested some loads on the weekend.

swedish flake powder
218 grain projectile
cci 200 primer
s&b 8x57 casing
oal was 3.24


42 grains (1982 fps average of 4 shots)
43 grains (2003 fps average of 3 shots)
44 grains (2071 fps average of 3 shots)
45 grains (2195 fps average of 3 shots)

No signs of pressure or anything at 45, will try going up in half grain increments, or maybe less, to see how they shoot.

Through k98 irons the 45 grains loads shot 4.5 inches low at 50 meters, setting the rear sight to 350 meters gave me impact at point of aim, with a 3" ish group.
 
Thanks Andy! That's useful. I measured 8x57 case volumes of modern and ww2 German casings, and found the German brass ones to have more volume. I think the steel casings were pretty close to the S&B I've been using.
I'll have to do some new measurements and post the data.

Thanks bigplinker for clueing us in on this drag calculator.
I played around a bit too. My numbers are a little bit different.

2iu573k.png

1z3os5c.png

zu0dxl.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom