Berger bullet failures?

Had a 130gr .270" Burger" explode on a WT shoulder blade at 180 yards broadside never found the deer ...................................exploded on the surface.
 
Love the Berger bullets just not for hunting anymore, I have shot about 4 deer with the 210grain VLDs out of my 300RUM, MV 3020fps. I have had 2 of the deer drop dead with out taking a step, and 2 deer run maybe 80 yards. The issue was tha non of the bullets penetrated any of the deer I shot. So no blood trais ever, that’s was a deal breaker for me, even heart shot deer can run a significant distance and it can be very difficult to find with out a blood trail.
All shots were inside 300yds.
 
I would really like to see some pictures of these "explosive" entry side wounds. Out of all the game I have shot with Bergers only one deer had a larger entrance wound. Shot was at 30 yds out of a 7 WSM with a 140. I would say entrance was about grapefruit size. No exit wound but both lungs were destroyed. Other than that performance has been perfect. Caliber size entrance, mush in the middle, lots of times a exit anywhere from toonie size to fist size. Sometimes no exit, but you get no exit no matter what kind of bullet you use. Depends on shot distance, bone hits etc. Wouldn't be pics on here and other sites of recovered Partitions and Barnes if they always got a exit.
 
beeman2 said:
I would really like to see some pictures of these "explosive" entry side wounds. Out of all the game I have shot with Bergers only one deer had a larger entrance wound. Shot was at 30 yds out of a 7 WSM with a 140. I would say entrance was about grapefruit size. No exit wound but both lungs were destroyed. Other than that performance has been perfect. Caliber size entrance, mush in the middle, lots of times a exit anywhere from toonie size to fist size. Sometimes no exit, but you get no exit no matter what kind of bullet you use. Depends on shot distance, bone hits etc. Wouldn't be pics on here and other sites of recovered Partitions and Barnes if they always got a exit.
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My experience as well...

Put the Berger in right spot and it will just plain work.

Shot a Mule Deer buck @ 40yards. Large entry...no exit...had decent blood trail but didnt need it he piled upnwithin 20 yards.....lungs liquified.
 
350 Mag said:
My experience as well...

Put the Berger in right spot and it will just plain work.

Shot a Mule Deer buck @ 40yards. Large entry...no exit...had decent blood trail but didnt need it he piled upnwithin 20 yards.....lungs liquified.
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The reason that I don't shoot Berger, is that the right spot is much more limited, than it is with a controlled expansion bullet. A TTSX will reach the vitals of a moose or an elk from pretty much any angle, a Berger won't. If the bullet did not exit a mule deer, would it have even reached the lungs on a moose, if it had to go through a front shoulder first?
 
elimsprint said:
I guess the moral of the story here is Berger lovers don't take the marginal shots that Berger haters seem to like.
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It's only marginal if you aren't certain that the bullet will do the job, and that you can place it properly. The Berger lovers tend to be the majority of the people taking the lower percentage long range shots.
 
elimsprint said:
If you never found the deer how do you know what happened?
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Broadside center of shoulder off a bi-pod ,,,,,,,3 legged flop a Hornady even though they are now less than they once were would have busted right through both shoulders destroying the lungs. PS you weren't there .I saw bullet blowups at 600 and 500 yards on cow elk.Recover a 10 gr copper base 168gr Burger from a .300 RUM I've shot over 200 head of various big game not my first rodeo.
 
350 Mag said:
After your 50 you can use some extra lead for your pencil....
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Fair enough :d

Shot lots of Berger 180 VLDs in a 1-8” 7 mag. This was on a 1K range mind you never plugged anything I wanted to eat with them. They flew great, and at long range could see their utility on game, but that’s just not my jam hunting wise. Have gone lead free on game killing bullets as tiny fragments of lead end up a surprising distance into the meat. I actually think monos are behind lead core bullets in lethality, but use lead free on principle. Also helps not putting a lead laced gut pile out for everything to scavenge.
 
Ardent said:
Fair enough :d

Shot lots of Berger 180 VLDs in a 1-8” 7 mag. This was on a 1K range mind you never plugged anything I wanted to eat with them. They flew great, and at long range could see their utility on game, but that’s just not my jam hunting wise. Have gone lead free on game killing bullets as tiny fragments of lead end up a surprising distance into the meat. I actually think monos are behind lead core bullets in lethality, but use lead free on principle. Also helps not putting a lead laced gut pile out for everything to scavenge.
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Bullet technology is developing all the time...

I haven't really given Barnes a try(except for Muzzleloader TMZs). I normally shoot AB or Berger's and had great results with both.

Anyone comment on bullet like LRX at long range....their B.Cs are substantially lower than Berger or Hornady...

Seems everyone gravitates towards Berger and ELD-X?
 
I've been happy with the Berger 185 gr VLD in a .308". I keep in mind to avoid large bones. Properly placed in the chest cavity, the results are a clean entry wound, a fist sized exit wound and everything in between turned to mush. A low shot will pulverize the heart, a high shot will see shrapnel in the spine.

That being said this will be my last season with them for hunting. Too bad I have 1000 on hand, will use them for target shooting. My issue isn't performance, it's where does all the lead go? Wishful thinking would say the lead and all shrapnel go out the exit wound. Reality has me thinking too much of it ends up in the meat, even if you can't see it.

I will be trying cutting edge bullets next year. They seem to be the best compromise between a Barnes and a Berger. Will likely go with the 180 gr MTH or Maximus.
 
Cutting Edge sponsors my outfit and have tried all their stuff, the MTH, ER Raptors, even their handgun bullets loaded in a rifle. The Raptors and the handgun bullet have been the best, the MTH is quite a “hard” bullet and I wouldn’t expect it to open dramatically at ranges past the usual, say 300 in most faster chamberings, 200 in a .308.

You’re dead right on the lead, fragments can end up huge distances from where the bullet impacted. And lead is awful stuff to expose your body too, especially for children. Not fear mongering, not alarmism, common sense sending a toxic heavy metal at high velocity into your food is a terrible idea. X rays of meat below.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/wild-game-deer-venison-condors-meat-lead-ammunition-ban/
http://www.leadfreehunting.com/lead-in-game-meat/
 
Ardent, thank you for posting the links. It's pretty much what I thought.

As for CEB, it seems lighter bullets and higher velocity would be preferred. Do you have any experience with the Maximus line? They say it sits somewhere between the Raptors and the MTH.

The Raptors seem like a very good design, but the low BC is somewhat of a turnoff. I guess it wouldn't matter at all under 300 yards.
 
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