Hunting without PAL

[hunter148]

If you are hunting with a gun and have no valid PAL,which must be in your possession while hunting, your ONT gun hunting licences are not valid as of January 1, 2019, once purchased.
Read the legislation my friend because any of the info packets I have seen do not include this little tid bit. More Liberal regs for those who cannot function without.

 

[Trimmer 905]

If you are hunting with a gun and have no valid PAL,which must be in your possession while hunting, your ONT gun hunting licences are not valid as of January 1, 2019, once purchased.
Read the legislation my friend because any of the info packets I have seen do not include this little tid bit. More Liberal regs for those who cannot function without.

Hunting with a gun and not having a PAL is a criminal offense. An Ontario hunting license invalidity is a moot point.

 

[klaus enuff]

Maybe 5 years ago or so a friend of mine who is status got his PAL. He had hunted for years without one and he only got it after he was pretty much forced to.

This is in BC, I don't know if it was the RCMP or the CO's that was behind it. My friend said that it wasn't just him that was told he needed a PAL, everyone was told they needed to get licences.

 

[45ACPKING]

so much fail with gun owners these days.

perhaps beyond hope when most don't even understand the boundaries of thier "privledges".

 

[Ar180shooter]

i dropped my shotgun off at the rcmp det. in stewart while my wife and i went over to hyder.told the duty officer i was using it for predator control while in camp.showed my pal and the wife told them she didn't have one.no problem,so i call bs. on ar180shooter.

If you're there in the cabin there is no cause for charges to be laid because there is a holder of a valid firearms license on the premesis. Try having the cops show up when you are not there and your wife has access to a firearm. I can guarantee you don't want that happening. Numerous cases on here have come up over the years of that exact scenario, and I also have a friend who had something similar happen to him. Not fun.

 

[Papaclaude]

Wow , looks like i will be waiting to my pal is renewed!!

Thanks

I you have access to a flintlock or antique rifle you would also be OK. As far as the 1 PAL - 1 gun thing, I'm not sure about that. Nothing in the CC says you can only have 1 rifle. Personally, I have, on occasion, brought more than 1 rifle into the bush. One for my stand, and one for brush. Absolutely and 100% legal in Ontario. 2 shotguns would land you in trouble under the Migratory Game Birds legislation. That being said, is it something you would be prepared to go to court over if you get an overzealous CO or LEO? Mind you, you'd have to be under immediate supervision

 

[Ar180shooter]

so much fail with gun owners these days.

perhaps beyond hope when most don't even understand the boundaries of thier "privledges".

Section 91 of the criminal code.

91 (1) Subject to subsection (4), every person commits an offence who possesses a prohibited firearm, a restricted firearm or a non-restricted firearm without being the holder of

(a) a licence under which the person may possess it; and

(b) in the case of a prohibited firearm or a restricted firearm, a registration certificate for it.

Nothing about "lawful use" in there.

It is also an offence to transfer a firearm to someone who does not possess a license.

Section (4) covers people under direct and immdeiate supervision. Remember, we're talking about storage and unsupervised access violations. There is no issue if unlicensed people are present with access to firearms as long as there are licensed people present. The issue is if there are unsecured firearms at the camp and only an unlicensed individual there.

 

[Papaclaude]

wouldnt work in ontario, archery season is closed during gun season, is alberta different?

Are you 100% sure about that? I The regs indicate otherwise: ht tps://files.ontario.ca/hunting_regs_e_final_for_web.

Correction: Whoever stated that you can't use archery gear during controlled hunts is right. I have never been involved ir participated in such a hunt, so had never bothered to read up on them. Wonder why archery gear would not be allowed?

Re-correction: WMU 80 allows bows during the controlled hunt. WTF?????

 

[Papaclaude]

Section 91 of the criminal code.



Nothing about "lawful use" in there.

It is also an offence to transfer a firearm to someone who does not possess a license.

Section (4) covers people under direct and immdeiate supervision. Remember, we're talking about storage and unsupervised access violations. There is no issue if unlicensed people are present with access to firearms as long as there are licensed people present. The issue is if there are unsecured firearms at the camp and only an unlicensed individual there.

I believe "transfer" and "possession" have been clearly defined in jurisprudence and that "allowing use of under direct supervision" is neither.

 

[45ACPKING]

Section 91 of the criminal code.



Nothing about "lawful use" in there.

It is also an offence to transfer a firearm to someone who does not possess a license.

Section (4) covers people under direct and immdeiate supervision. Remember, we're talking about storage and unsupervised access violations. There is no issue if unlicensed people are present with access to firearms as long as there are licensed people present. The issue is if there are unsecured firearms at the camp and only an unlicensed individual there.

in BC , a hunting license IS satisfying 91(1) (a) , and allows a non pal holder to posess a firearm under direct supervision for the lawful purpose of hunting.
I'd bet my house on it.

as for a non pal holder being left in camp with unsecured firearms...... that's not legal.
Get the camp cook a crossbow or perhaps a large caliber antique pistol would be more appropriate as no one needs a license for those.

 

[memaquay]

What a mess. I would still like to hear from an Ontario hunter who has beens stopped with one pal, two hunters, two guns, to see what actually transpired.

I have been stopped 6 or seven times in Northern Ontario, where I live, but never have I been asked for a PAL.

 

[smokin'stoegie]

What a mess. I would still like to hear from an Ontario hunter who has beens stopped with one pal, two hunters, two guns, to see what actually transpired.

I have been stopped 6 or seven times in Northern Ontario, where I live, but never have I been asked for a PAL.

I agree, 10 pages of nonsense....again.
Why would anybody in their right mind take any of the advice or tips after reading this.

I am also certain that within this thread the right answer was provided but how would anyone know ??

 

[Grock-co]

Legal advice from the internet get what you pay for,

 

[45ACPKING]

well..... it's confusing because the firearms act allows each province the ability to adjust things to suit.
I've spoken about how it works in BC and I personally have zero doubt in my mind about the law or it's intent.


http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/owner-proprietaire-eng.htm


everyone who has posted in this thread needs to read the very clear message on the page I've linked above. Remember..... that link is the RCMP firearms information website. I clicked on the link for Firearms users 18 and over. I found this information extremely quickly.
When faced with an officer confrontation over a Supervised Non PAL holder in posession of a firearm for a lawful purpose..... the link above is what you show that officer.

have a good day everyone , and take a buddy hunting or shooting.

 

[rhino519]

That's incorrect. Nothing prevents the use of archery equipment at the same time as any gun hunt except during limited,controlled hunts in several WMU's in south western Ontario,the only difference being that blaze orange is required during all Ontario big game gun hunts including the December muzzle loader 6 day hunt in some WMU's.

i’ve checked and checked again, wmu 46 ( where i do list hunting) archery is closed for two weeks of gun season

 

[Papaclaude]

i’ve checked and checked again, wmu 46 ( where i do list hunting) archery is closed for two weeks of gun season

This is what I found, and it does seem to indicate that bowhunting is legal during the gun season. Am I missing something? My understanding is that you can use bows, but must (should?) wear orange during the gun season. (I never bothered to check on the legal status of that, as there is no way I'm walking around the bush in camo during gun season - when I'm up in my stand the orange comes off.) Anyway, ere are the regs, but they wouldn't paste as a table.

2018 Deer Seasons Rifles, Shotguns, Bows and Muzzle-loading guns
46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 53A, 54, 55A, 55B, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63A, 63B, 64A, 66A, 67, 68A, 74B Nov. 5 to Nov. 18

 

[45ACPKING]

i don't know why a few of you from ontario are confusing this thread (since post 10) with bow hunting regulation from mu's all over ontario. Start another thread for that.

this thread was from a member from alberta regarding hunting without a pal. All you guys have proved is that the provincial regulations differ from province to province under each provinces wildlife act. Where bow hunting came into it..... I dunno.

Bottom line is in the sections headed "it is unlawful " in the Alberta Hunting regulations, they do not even mention firearms licensing other than an age definition , nor do they mention or discuss borrowing/lending. Instead, the Alberta Hunting regulations defer to a link to the canadian firearms center.

cutting thru all the crap in this thread , the simple answer to the OP's question was Yes, you can hunt with a PAL holder and they can lend you a firearm while you are under thier direct supervision. Which means in thier presence not requiring magnification to see what they are doing. It means to be in thier presence not requiring amplification to verbally communicate.

there is no "1 gun per PAL" regulation in the firearms act lending borrowing exception , nor is there a 1 gun per PAL regulation in the Alberta wildlife act or hunting regs.

 

[memaquay]

I’ll say I have previously stated: I called mnr hotline in Ontario. Dude told me one pal one gun for hunting. When I asked him where this came from, he said federal regs. When I read the federal reg to him he became quite irate and told me to go ahead and break the law to see what would happen.

So again, where is the case law on this? If there is none I suspect no one who has been hunting in a one pal two gun has been charged. Seems odd.

 

[Runningfool]

I've spoken about how it works in BC and I personally have zero doubt in my mind about the law or it's intent.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/owner-proprietaire-eng.htm


everyone who has posted in this thread needs to read the very clear message on the page I've linked above. Remember..... that link is the RCMP firearms information website. I clicked on the link for Firearms users 18 and over. I found this information extremely quickly.
When faced with an officer confrontation over a Supervised Non PAL holder in posession of a firearm for a lawful purpose..... the link above is what you show...

... and I don't take rcmp bulletins as the gospel..... they post the wrong stuff too.... aren't they in trouble for that right now in fact? Contempt of parliament over an rcmp bulletin pertaining to the firearms act? damn rights they are...

So which is it? Believe the rcmp or not? You seem to be saying two different things in this thread.

You certainly don’t realize it but you are a big part of why these threads are full of confusion and nonsense! Remember the last time you were “100% sure” about how posted land works?

 

[45ACPKING]

I’ll say I have previously stated: I called mnr hotline in Ontario. Dude told me one pal one gun for hunting. When I asked him where this came from, he said federal regs. When I read the federal reg to him he became quite irate and told me to go ahead and break the law to see what would happen.

So again, where is the case law on this? If there is none I suspect no one who has been hunting in a one pal two gun has been charged. Seems odd.

it's not odd at all. maybe ontario has some fugged up hunting regs when it comes to use of firearms..... like tobacco, car insurance, alcohol, marijuana, driving age ect ect..... there are Federal laws and then each province has the power to make adjustments within the boundaries of the federal law. The firearms act is one of these sets of laws.

the firearms act does not say anything about 1 gun per pal in the borrowing section and based on the information that is provided by the cfc/rcmp, it would say 1 gun per pal if it "was" the law.

I'm gonna leave you guys to your confusion...... a high school student with a C+ average in basic law and english language should be able to understand what is written in the firearms act. It's very clear and easy to understand.