2007 M305 cycling issues

gvanzeggelaar

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Hopefully someone here knows what the issue is with my M305 when it comes to cycling.

It will either cycle perfectly or the bolt will not move. I would say 1 in 5 rounds it does not cycle at all. It doesn’t stovepipe or partially cycle. It just doesn’t seem to move at all.

This happens regardless of the type of ammo I use. It is upgraded with an M14.ca op rod and spring and a Boyd’s walnut stock. The gas system has been shimmed.

Is this a common or known issue with these guns. And more importantly is there something I can do about it?

Thanks in advance
 
Check to make sure that the gas port hole in the barrel is aligned with the hole in the piston tube. Shimming the gas system can partially block the gas flow if the shim is very thick.
 
Hopefully someone here knows what the issue is with my M305 when it comes to cycling.

It will either cycle perfectly or the bolt will not move. I would say 1 in 5 rounds it does not cycle at all. It doesn’t stovepipe or partially cycle. It just doesn’t seem to move at all.

This happens regardless of the type of ammo I use. It is upgraded with an M14.ca op rod and spring and a Boyd’s walnut stock. The gas system has been shimmed.

Is this a common or known issue with these guns. And more importantly is there something I can do about it?

Thanks in advance

when you say it doesn't move at all...... are you saying when it fires a round the bolt remains closed and fails to move rearward? (sometimes?)
Some good stuff already mentioned by others but I'll repeat them and add a bit more :)

first, check that the spindle valve on the side of the gas cylinder is in the open position. If the spindle valve is closed, the rifle becomes a single shot
Then remove your rifle from the boyds stock, remove the oprod , spring and guide rod.
stand the rifle up with muzzle pointing up and push the piston in and quickly remove your finger. If the piston drops with no vacuum it could be pooched. If it drops with some vacuum , all is good.
Next, remove the piston from the cylinder and reinstall gas plug to operating tightness.
Use a 1/16 or 3/32 drill bit shank and insert it in the hole on bottom of gas cylinder. It should be able to pass thru into the barrel. If it does, then your Gas cylinder assembly has proper port alignment. if it does not.... either your spindle valve is closed, or the shims have put the ports out of alignment. In rare cases, the spindle valve spring deteriorates and causes port alignment issues as well but not common.
clean the gas piston and plug of carbon with a brake cleaner. Use no protective coatings or oils on these parts. The Pistons are hollow right thru the entire piston body except the very tail end and many folks don't realize that these are carbon traps but easily cleaned. I think there are tips and tricks in the sticky threads for these things.

rule out the gas cylinder. port alignment and see if that helps.
 
Ok I’ll go through these one by one.

Yes it fails to move rearward sometimes. The majority of the time it cycles and/or locks back. It’s like something catches every ten rounds or so and it locks up.

Spindle valve is open

It passes the vacuum test.

It passes the drill bit test I think. How big should the gas port be?
 
if you can pass a 1/16 allen key into the barrel (see it in the bore) I would look at the op rod. see if the op rod guide is properly aligned and not loose. take the op rod off and look at the roller pocket for improper wear. measure the rod tab for spec.
 
might have missed it but did you clean the gas piston and plug internally?
to do this thoroughly , use brake clean and drill bits that "just fit".
Google M14 gas piston cleaning tools and you will see what I mean. The tools online won't work though as they are sized for usgi/M1A units.
For the chinese rifles we have to get creative and find the drill bits that fit to do the job of carving out the carbon deposits.

the more we rule things out, eventually we will find the culprit. It's the bolt not moving "occasionally" that has me stumped. If the gas system is clean and checks out for alignment..... I agree with others that the next step is checking the oprod/oprod guide and the stock where the oprod slides. I doubt it's a problem with the spring or spring guide rod ..... but we can't rule it out just yet.
Worse case scenario is that something is malfunctioning at the rear of the bolt as it relates to the bolt tail/firing pin tang and safety bridge...... for this diagnoses you will need a rifle smith such as M14medic to inspect the action.
 
clean the gas piston and plug of carbon with a brake cleaner. Use no protective coatings or oils on these parts. The Pistons are hollow right thru the entire piston body except the very tail end and many folks don't realize that these are carbon traps but easily cleaned. I think there are tips and tricks in the sticky threads for these things.

rule out the gas cylinder. port alignment and see if that helps.

FWIW, I recommend the Sadlak tools made for this job (assuming imperial dimension parts). They are inexpensive and nothing works better. There are bi-deitectional drill bits with aluminum handles of the correct diameter. The gas system parts are hardened and the bits won't cut the stainless steel with hand pressure, so they work well.

You really only need to clean these parts every 1000 rounds or so, but if you have used USGI parts, for example, they may never have been cleaned. Even new-looking parts from treeline usually have seen thousands of rounds and require cleaning.
 
might have missed it but did you clean the gas piston and plug internally?
to do this thoroughly , use brake clean and drill bits that "just fit".
Google M14 gas piston cleaning tools and you will see what I mean. The tools online won't work though as they are sized for usgi/M1A units.
For the chinese rifles we have to get creative and find the drill bits that fit to do the job of carving out the carbon deposits.

the more we rule things out, eventually we will find the culprit. It's the bolt not moving "occasionally" that has me stumped. If the gas system is clean and checks out for alignment..... I agree with others that the next step is checking the oprod/oprod guide and the stock where the oprod slides. I doubt it's a problem with the spring or spring guide rod ..... but we can't rule it out just yet.
Worse case scenario is that something is malfunctioning at the rear of the bolt as it relates to the bolt tail/firing pin tang and safety bridge...... for this diagnoses you will need a rifle smith such as M14medic to inspect the action.

To add on:

Tell me how you run your rifle please:

1) What kind of lubricant are you using in the receiver, on the bolt lugs, and in the op rod track?
2) Did you thoroughly degrease and then re-lubricate the rifle when you bought it, or did you just go shooting?
3) Have you done the tilt test? (google M14 tilt test). Did it pass?
4) When you wiggle the operating rod guide (pinned to the barrel), does it move side to side, or is it held firm?
5) factory loads or reloads? What grain?
6) when you put on the boyd's stock, did you do any inletting on the upper surface of the stock where the operating rod shelf rests? Can you slide a $5 bill under the heel of the rile when the rifle is assembled, or is the heel sitting hard on the stock?
7) With no rounds in the rifle, if you rack the oprod, is the bolt hold open holding the bolt back every time? With the magazine in the rifle, when the bolt is retracted, can you see if the magazine follower is catching UNDER the bolt hold open and fully lifting the BHO? Some mags (actually most non-GI mags except for early Norinco and Checkmate commercial) have an improperly formed follower that can cause the BHO to jam in the up position and reduce reliability.
8) What brand NM guide rod are you using? Do you still have the chinese op rod spring? Chinese springs are a little longer than USGI and have a smaller inside diameter. Canadian-made guide rods are usually sold a little under-diameter to work with Chinese springs, and also incorporate a longer nose taper to improve reliability with chinese parts. But if you have a US guide rod like a sadlak and run it with a chinese spring, this can prevent the op rod from travelling back more than about 1.5" because the spring binds on the guide rod and prevents operating rod rearward travel. It can be intermittent on some guns. If this happens, the bolt goes back into battery after a short stroke and it looks like the bolt didn't move. It did, just not enough to prevent the spend round from re-loading into the chamber.
 
An update

This is what it looks like when it doesn’t cycle.


This what it normally looks like when it is in battery



It looks like the op rod or bolt retracts a bit but stops after only moving about 1/4”
 
I would try to simulate the cycle by removing the gas plug and using a rod to push on the piston to see where it is getting hung up. Maybe with an empty case in the chamber.
 
Maybe its the angle of the pic but I don't see any grease on that rifle, some grease added to the correct areas might help. See the stickies or take a gander at youtube for where to lube the rifle.

That being said it looks like its not going into battery. If I were to guess, the op rod is making contact with the stock somewhere inside. Can you see any rub marks on the inside of the stock or on the op rod itself?

when the rifle is removed from the stock does it still do the same thing or does everything move freely?
 
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