Norc CQ-A Rifling Twist?

mmattockx

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
106   0   0
Does anybody know what the the twist rate would be for a Norc CQ-A? 14.5" barrel, bought new in 2011 when the CQ-A was first brought in. There are no markings on the barrel that I can see. I want to work up some loads with 69gr and 75-77gr bullets but there is no point if it won't stabilize them.


Thanks,
Mark
 
Just test it. Take a cleaning rod and draw a reasonably straight line all the way down it. Use a 22 cal bore brush attached and insert it into the barrel from the muzzle end. Mark where your drawn centerline is and carefully push it down the bore, allowing the cleaning brush to twist with the lands and grooves. Once that center line returns to the beginning position, mark it and pull the rod out. Measure your start point and your end point and you’ll get a fairly close representation of your twist rate.

Did this on an old west german made weatherby, worked pretty well.
 
Have you considered Hornady 53 gr V-Max? it's got a high BC for its weight and probably cheaper than 69 gr Match. I've never used them myself, but seen enough positive comments over the years to give them a go sometime.
 
Have you considered Hornady 53 gr V-Max? it's got a high BC for its weight and probably cheaper than 69 gr Match. I've never used them myself, but seen enough positive comments over the years to give them a go sometime.

I have some PRVI 69gr bulk that I want to try out and was hoping to find similar bulk bullets in the 75gr weight area to try out as well. In the end it is a 14.5" barreled Norc M4 clone, so it isn't going to be a world beater no matter what.


Mark
 
What distance are you planning to shoot at?
If 200-300 yards don't worry about it and just try whatever projectiles you want. If over 200-300 yards you need to start considering twist rate and projectile weight.

I've found that it's not till you get out to where it is slowing down (velocity and RPM) that you need to start worrying about spin.
I know, that's not what the internet tells us but I've done testing of my own and done a lot of reading and have found that at short range your groups will change with different projectiles and powders but almost any projectile can print a decent group from a decent barrel at 100 yards if you find the velocity node that brings the barrel into the right harmonic to release the bullet in the same place in the barrel whip every time.
I have a 12 twist barrel in a 223 bolt action and it will print tight groups with almost any projectile out to around 300 yards but beyond that it falls apart completely with heavy projectiles because it doesn't have the bullet RPM at the muzzle to maintain enough spin to remain stable as the distance increases.

Regardless of twist the bullet is stable leaving the barrel and for up to 200-300 yards, after that is when you see the stability go away when the projectile and barrel twist are not suited to each other. In extreme cases like shooting an 80gr projectile from my 12 twist it just doesn't work well at any distance but a 9 twist should stabilize any projectile for a couple hundred yards, after that it might make it to 300 yards but only testing it will tell you for sure.

So, if you do try some 70+ grain bullets make sure you test them at 300-400 yards if you find something it seems to like at 100 yards.

Of course it's your rifle and money so feel free to do whatever load development you want with your rifle and I hope you find a load you're happy with but the reality is that (in my opinion and as you've mentioned) you bought a cheap bullet hose. I would enjoy it for what it is and if you want tight groups replace the barrel. A decent barrel will transform your rifle for very little money. Jerry from Mystic Precision has a Norinco AR with an aftermarket barrel in it and he has completed the black rifle accuracy challenge with it. The groups are very impressive and all he did was change the barrel as far as i know (he may have changed the trigger as well).

Not really sure why you want to shoot more expensive ammo from a Norc but there's nothing wrong with trying to find a better load for any rifle. I would be looking for a nice load with 55gr projectiles, maybe a 62gr if you can find a bulk bag for a good price.
Again, unless you plan to shoot at 500-800 yards you don't need to have a heavy bullet with a fast twist barrel. A 55 grain bullet can shoot nicely out to 400-500 yards.

Good luck.
 
I've found that it's not till you get out to where it is slowing down (velocity and RPM) that you need to start worrying about spin.

Bryan Litz says you have that backwards, but that is neither here nor there.


Not really sure why you want to shoot more expensive ammo from a Norc but there's nothing wrong with trying to find a better load for any rifle. I would be looking for a nice load with 55gr projectiles, maybe a 62gr if you can find a bulk bag for a good price.

I realize that the heavier bullets make no difference up close, I just like using heavy for caliber bullets and I happen to have a pile of the 69gr sitting on a shelf already.


Mark
 
The lightweight Dominion Arms 14.5” barrels are 1/7. I believe he still has some left.
 
The spin rate of the projectile slows down much less per 100 yds than does forward velocity, meaning that any bullet that's stable at 100 yds will very likely remain stable at 1000 yds.

I can stabilize the Sierra 77 gr HPBT (9377T) at 200 yds in a 1:9 twist Norinco CQ-A, although Sierra suggests that a 1:8 or faster is required. The Sierra 69 gr is of course stabilized as well.

That said, some 75 gr bullet designs might not stabilize in the same 1:9 twist if they're even slightly longer than the 9377T.
 
Last edited:
Light weight 20" Dominion is 1:12; sub MOA in my AR project in a BCL upper/lower combo.

Yes, the 20” was available in 1:12 and 1:9. I believe he has 1:12 left and I’m seriously thinking about grabbing one and chopping down to 18.5”. I’ve heard great things about the Norc lightweights and your comment just serves to confirm that.
 
Yes, the 20” was available in 1:12 and 1:9. I believe he has 1:12 left and I’m seriously thinking about grabbing one and chopping down to 18.5”. I’ve heard great things about the Norc lightweights and your comment just serves to confirm that.

That would be illegal, you can't cut a barrel on a restricted rifle. Makes no sense since it's restricted at either length but you have to buy a shorter barrel to be legal.
 
Yes, the 20” was available in 1:12 and 1:9. I believe he has 1:12 left and I’m seriously thinking about grabbing one and chopping down to 18.5”. I’ve heard great things about the Norc lightweights and your comment just serves to confirm that.

I should clarify; sub MOA with my home loads; Federal American Eagle 55gr 223 gives me 4" groups... Yes, that ammo is that bad.
 
That would be illegal, you can't cut a barrel on a restricted rifle. Makes no sense since it's restricted at either length but you have to buy a shorter barrel to be legal.

Not true. You cannot cut a barrel below 18.5” on a semi.

I do agree that it makes no sense as it was once fairly common place until the firearms lab once again reinterpreted the law. I personally don’t believe it to be illegal the way the firearms act is written but I won’t be testing that out nor do I advise anyone to do so.
 
I can stabilize the Sierra 77 gr HPBT (9377T) at 200 yds in a 1:9 twist Norinco CQ-A, although Sierra suggests that a 1:8 or faster is required. The Sierra 69 gr is of course stabilized as well.

That said, some 75 gr bullet designs might not stabilize in the same 1:9 twist if they're even slightly longer than the 9377T.

Great info, thanks.


That would be illegal, you can't cut a barrel on a restricted rifle.

Not true. You cannot cut a barrel below 18.5” on a semi.

Any long gun (ie - non-handgun) barrel cut shorter than 457mm (17.99") makes the firearm prohibited, regardless of the caliber or action type. A semi-auto centerfire barrel must be longer than 470mm (18.50") to be non-restricted. So you can cut a semi barrel shorter than 470mm but the firearm would become restricted. Shorter than 457mm for any type of long gun barrel results in a prohib.


Mark
 
Back
Top Bottom