Berger bullet failures?

Leeelmer.....Just keep using those Bergers.. Sooner or later there will be a "failure"
With so many superior designs, including bonded and monometals out there,
why one would choose a bullet that actually disintegrates in an animal is beyond
my comprehension. D.
 
Because for the people who use Bergers they work for their style of hunting. I prefer shots under 500 yds. But if conditions are right at 6-7-800 yds I know my bergers will still expand. I wouldn’t have confidence in a Barnes expanding at the farther ranges. Just my opinion as I’ve never used a Barnes. I do think they have there place, but at reduced impact velocity I’d be worried.
 
Because for the people who use Bergers they work for their style of hunting. I prefer shots under 500 yds. But if conditions are right at 6-7-800 yds I know my bergers will still expand. I wouldn’t have confidence in a Barnes expanding at the farther ranges. Just my opinion as I’ve never used a Barnes. I do think they have there place, but at reduced impact velocity I’d be worried.
 
leveractionjunkie said:
That chunk of lead in Tod’s hamburger is what got me to try mono bullets after a similar experience. 3deer so far with mono’s, I would like to try an accubond type bullet if the bonding process will keep the lead from my meat.
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This is why I'm moving away from Berger bullets for hunting. I finished this season with some Federal Fusion in .308. They worked perfectly with both deers I took. Both were pass through though, never recovered the bullets. Didn't find any metal in the meat yet. I will be using CEB next season.
 
This year I shot a bear at 300 yards, a wolf at 20 yards and a buck at 158 yards all were hit good cause they stumbled and there was enough blood to follow for a long time, plus each shot felt good . Each animal got away after being hit with a 250 grain elite hunter berger bullet outta my 338 lapua. The most accurate bullet Ive shot but I will never use them for hunting again .

You cant make this stuff up .
 
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I am convinced that all these long boat tail cup and core bullets will shed their jacket at speed and impact. Not a big deal on deer or antelope.
Get rid of the boat tail and shoot a flat base, some of these jacket shedding issues disappear.
Get rid of the jacket all together, then you have the ideal bullet for maximum penetration.
 
Silver Lab said:
This is to bad, I liked this guy. Can someone explain how you can know how a elk died or didn’t die when you don’t find it? I couldn’t care what bullet anyone uses but to say you know the bullet failed when you have no clue where you hit it is just plain ignorant.
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To a point. But there are some folks who shoot more than 10 rounds per year. Some shoot even a couple of hundred rounds a year out of their big game rifles. They also have decades of hunting experience and have shot many dozens of head of game. Some have even shot hundreds of head of game. They know how to shoot, where to aim and have the experience to see if an animal is hit. To a person like that a 200 yard shot on stationary, broadside game is a gimme. To dismiss that level of skill and experience out of hand is just plain ignorant.
 
1899 said:
To a point. But there are some folks who shoot more than 10 rounds per year. Some shoot even a couple of hundred rounds a year out of their big game rifles. They also have decades of hunting experience and have shot many dozens of head of game. Some have even shot hundreds of head of game. They know how to shoot, where to aim and have the experience to see if an animal is hit. To a person like that a 200 yard shot on stationary, broadside game is a gimme. To dismiss that level of skill and experience out of hand is just plain ignorant.
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You need to go watch the video again..... In this instance this was one of his first years hunting, he was 15 years old, the elk was 350 yards away and he was laying in 2’ of fresh snow. Like I said a lot of people have claimed bullet failure even with TTSXs but have no animal to prove it. I love to hear these story’s of how bullets just bounce off animals, makes me laugh.
 
Silver Lab said:
You need to go watch the video again..... In this instance this was one of his first years hunting, he was 15 years old, the elk was 350 yards away and he was laying in 2’ of fresh snow. Like I said a lot of people have claimed bullet failure even with TTSXs but have no animal to prove it. I love to hear these story’s of how bullets just bounce off animals, makes me laugh.
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No one is suggesting that bullets "bounce" off game. It's what they do when they hit that's at issue here.
Regardless of the circumstances, he was shooting the wrong bullet to hunt elk with....far too fragile.

I was not there, but I am older than the guy in the video, have shot a huge amount of game in the past
55 years, and I'm willing to bet a fair chunk of change on what happened.

That Sierra Match bullet hit that Elk on the shoulder where a fair amount of bone is, and the bullet
simply failed to penetrate into the vitals at all.

I have seen a few of these incidents due to using a BT bullet that is too thin jacketed.
The bullet makes a fairly large, ugly, surface wound, and does not get to the vitals at all.

It is called a "bloom", and can sometimes be seen with the naked eye when it occurs.
Follow up shots will invariably be needed to anchor the animal. Without a follow-up shot,
the animal may die later, but can travel a long, long way before doing so.

Had that been a Partition, it would have smashed through the bone, through the vitals
and the Elk would have been dead within 100 yards. Likewise, several other real "game"
bullets I can think of. But target bullets on game....never a great idea. Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
No one is suggesting that bullets "bounce" off game. It's what they do when they hit that's at issue here.
Regardless of the circumstances, he was shooting the wrong bullet to hunt elk with....far too fragile.

I was not there, but I am older than the guy in the video, have shot a huge amount of game in the past
55 years, and I'm willing to bet a fair chunk of change on what happened.

That Sierra Match bullet hit that Elk on the shoulder where a fair amount of bone is, and the bullet
simply failed to penetrate into the vitals at all.

I have seen a few of these incidents due to using a BT bullet that is too thin jacketed.
The bullet makes a fairly large, ugly, surface wound, and does not get to the vitals at all.

It is called a "bloom", and can sometimes be seen with the naked eye when it occurs.
Follow up shots will invariably be needed to anchor the animal. Without a follow-up shot,
the animal may die later, but can travel a long, long way before doing so.

Had that been a Partition, it would have smashed through the bone, through the vitals
and the Elk would have been dead within 100 yards. Likewise, several other real "game"
bullets I can think of. But target bullets on game....never a great idea. Dave.
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Maybe that is what happened or.... He hit a non vital area of the animal and it didn’t die, no one will know is all I’m saying and without a dead elk to look at it’s all speculation at best. I really like the guy in the video, I’m just surprised he would speculate what happened. It takes more of a man to admit he made a bad shot then one who simply blames the bullet rather then his shot.
 
beeman2 said:
Because for the people who use Bergers they work for their style of hunting. I prefer shots under 500 yds. But if conditions are right at 6-7-800 yds I know my bergers will still expand. I wouldn’t have confidence in a Barnes expanding at the farther ranges. Just my opinion as I’ve never used a Barnes. I do think they have there place, but at reduced impact velocity I’d be worried.
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Non expansion isn't nearly as much of an issue as no penetration. You can kill an elk with solids if you get him through the heart/lungs. You can't kill one if it doesn't reach that area and only makes a superficial wound.
They're target bullets with a hunting label and their selling point is ballistic coefficient. I've seen them fail miserably at close range, as any match bullet on game will, but no point going into detail as too many have drank the VLD Kool-Aid in the last few years.
 
2018 is the first year I hunted with Berger VLD hunting bullets. Prior to that I was using 168gr nosler BT. Both these bullets shed their cores, however the nosler BT penetrates to the vitals and remains mostly in the wound channel. I was recommended the Bergers as a multi purpose bullet that were precise enough for target shooting, yet i could hunt with if i chose.The Bergers did penetrate and came apart at various depths through the animals I shot, but made it through the animal none the less. I ended up shooting a bull elk at 515yds, and a mule buck at 315yds. Both side profile shots and in the vitals. The elk dropped in its tracks as you may see in some hunting videos where they endorse Berger bullets, however I didn't trust the bullet yet and stayed on him for some time. About 20 min after he dropped, he stood up, kind of. He wasn't going anywhere but I gave him 3 more in the lungs before he succumbed to the damage. The mule buck was hit in the heart and lungs and had massive blood loss, but he did not drop in his tracks. He walked 20yds and dropped. There was massive damage to the ribs and shoulders of the deer and alot of waste. When I shot the elk, the bullet was obviously travelling quite a bit slower and didn't do as much damage. In both cases some of the bullet fragments passed through, more so on the elk as the bullet didn't come apart as violently. The Berger bullet's are made for broad side shots and meant to be travelling fast so they deliver a massive amount of shock to an animal. They work for their intended purpose.
 
bearkilr said:
Non expansion isn't nearly as much of an issue as no penetration. You can kill an elk with solids if you get him through the heart/lungs. You can't kill one if it doesn't reach that area and only makes a superficial wound.
They're target bullets with a hunting label and their selling point is ballistic coefficient. I've seen them fail miserably at close range, as any match bullet on game will, but no point going into detail as too many have drank the VLD Kool-Aid in the last few years.
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So you are saying that every match bullet is going to fail at close range? What is close range? That just makes me laugh. Guess I'm just really lucky then, because I have never lost an animal near or far shooting Bergers. Please explain how this type of bullet will ALWAYS fail. I have had shots on game as close as 30 yds and as far as 734 yds. Has every bullet reacted different? Yes absolutely but find me a bullet that performs the same at 30 yds as it does at 800 yds. Not going to happen.
 
beeman2 said:
So you are saying that every match bullet is going to fail at close range? What is close range? That just makes me laugh. Guess I'm just really lucky then, because I have never lost an animal near or far shooting Bergers. Please explain how this type of bullet will ALWAYS fail. I have had shots on game as close as 30 yds and as far as 734 yds. Has every bullet reacted different? Yes absolutely but find me a bullet that performs the same at 30 yds as it does at 800 yds. Not going to happen.
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Nobody is saying that a match bullet will fail every time, but rather that sooner or later, you are likely going to experience a failure because you choose to use match bullets.
 
beeman2 said:
So you are saying that every match bullet is going to fail at close range? What is close range? That just makes me laugh. Guess I'm just really lucky then, because I have never lost an animal near or far shooting Bergers. Please explain how this type of bullet will ALWAYS fail. I have had shots on game as close as 30 yds and as far as 734 yds. Has every bullet reacted different? Yes absolutely but find me a bullet that performs the same at 30 yds as it does at 800 yds. Not going to happen.
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There are bullets that will work at all ranges. Nosler Partition or Accubond, Swift A Frame, Hornady Interbond,etc.

If you've never lost an animal then you haven't hunted much. It happens to everyone regardless of bullet used.
 
Hunted for 36 years. Not saying I have never lost an animal. But as has been said on here it was bullet placement not bullet failure. The bullets you listed may work at extended range but I would not be confident in them expanding at low impact velocity. Not to mention the wind drift because of the BC. BC not only affects drift and drop it also affects energy. Comparing my friends factory Federal 300 Win Mag loads 180 gr something for a bullet, to my 215 Berger hand load was unreal. The 215 Berger has as much energy at 900 yds as the Federal load/bullet has at 400 yds. Just taking the numbers off the box and comparing it to my program. The bullets you listed still would not be the first choice if a longer shot is required. If you start to limit your range to 500 yds and under then yes I agree those bullets will work well. But to say they will expand and have the same wound channel from 30 yds to 1000 yds, I don't think so. You did say they will work at all ranges. There is no perfect bullet for all ranges. Wish there was. I like my shots 500 yds and under but also want a bullet that will work if a shot presents itself out farther.
 
ndallyn said:
Very interesting video on the topic.

https://youtu.be/pBDm41duCTo
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Sorry but if you listen to this whole thing, the guy talks out of both sides of his mouth. "No business shooting at our majestic game if you are just going to wound it" but admits to shooting an elk in the ass and then tracking it to finish it, because that is all he had to shoot at. Says 300 Mag doesn't have enough energy at 900 yards to shoot elk but has a raft of 7 Mag bullets as examples of what he shot at 600 to 800 yards. A 7 Rem Mag has no more energy at that distance than a 300 Mag. There is some stuff I agree with him on but in general this guy is a sanctimonious, pontificating windbag, in my opinion.
 
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