Berger bullet failures?

The Real Gunsmith is a great way to lull yourself to sleep in the evening. He probably spends more time watching the Weather Network than he does anything else
 
Dean2 said:
Sorry but if you listen to this whole thing, the guy talks out of both sides of his mouth. "No business shooting at our majestic game if you are just going to wound it" but admits to shooting an elk in the ass and then tracking it to finish it, because that is all he had to shoot at. Says 300 Mag doesn't have enough energy at 900 yards to shoot elk but has a raft of 7 Mag bullets as examples of what he shot at 600 to 800 yards. A 7 Rem Mag has no more energy at that distance than a 300 Mag. There is some stuff I agree with him on but in general this guy is a sanctimonious, pontificating windbag, in my opinion.
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I said it was interesting - I didn't say I agreed with everything (just so we're clear). I definitely think it is worth watching just to see the bullet cross-sections and to get another opinion.

Personally, I used mostly Hornady interlocks but have switched to accubonds for hunting the last couple years. I don't have nearly the experience that some guys do - but as a general rule I have never lost an animal when using a stout, heavy for caliber bullet at moderate ranges and velocity. I mean 180's in .308, 160's in 7mm, 195 and 200 gr in 8mm. I have lost animals and meat with frangible bullets at high velocity. I lost a deer with 90 gr sst's in a .243 (broadside shot at under 75 yds, made a hell of a whack when it hit - tracked for two days and never found it - only thing I can figure is bullet hit a rib and either only hit one lung or disintegrated on the surface), lost a couple sets of tenderloins because of bullet fragments when shooting ballistic tips and match type bullets. I've been hunting for 20 years, definitely haven't seen or done it all, but practicing long and hunting short has always worked well - loading heavier and therefore slower with a good quality bullet just works for me. I have a lot of respect for guys who have the skill to shoot long range, but I definitely question a lot of the "one shot long range kills" you will find on YouTube especially when they are edited films used for marketing a product.

Your mileage may vary,

Nathan
 
ndallyn said:
I said it was interesting - I didn't say I agreed with everything (just so we're clear). I definitely think it is worth watching just to see the bullet cross-sections and to get another opinion.

Personally, I used mostly Hornady interlocks but have switched to accubonds for hunting the last couple years. I don't have nearly the experience that some guys do - but as a general rule I have never lost an animal when using a stout, heavy for caliber bullet at moderate ranges and velocity. I mean 180's in .308, 160's in 7mm, 195 and 200 gr in 8mm. I have lost animals and meat with frangible bullets at high velocity. I lost a deer with 90 gr sst's in a .243 (broadside shot at under 75 yds, made a hell of a whack when it hit - tracked for two days and never found it - only thing I can figure is bullet hit a rib and either only hit one lung or disintegrated on the surface), lost a couple sets of tenderloins because of bullet fragments when shooting ballistic tips and match type bullets. I've been hunting for 20 years, definitely haven't seen or done it all, but practicing long and hunting short has always worked well - loading heavier and therefore slower with a good quality bullet just works for me. I have a lot of respect for guys who have the skill to shoot long range, but I definitely question a lot of the "one shot long range kills" you will find on YouTube especially when they are edited films used for marketing a product.

Your mileage may vary,




Lol! Here we go again.... Didn’t find the animal so the bullet failed..... Haha! Keep these coming they brighten my day!
You missed! Man up.
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Silver Lab said:
ndallyn said:
I said it was interesting - I didn't say I agreed with everything (just so we're clear). I definitely think it is worth watching just to see the bullet cross-sections and to get another opinion.

Personally, I used mostly Hornady interlocks but have switched to accubonds for hunting the last couple years. I don't have nearly the experience that some guys do - but as a general rule I have never lost an animal when using a stout, heavy for caliber bullet at moderate ranges and velocity. I mean 180's in .308, 160's in 7mm, 195 and 200 gr in 8mm. I have lost animals and meat with frangible bullets at high velocity. I lost a deer with 90 gr sst's in a .243 (broadside shot at under 75 yds, made a hell of a whack when it hit - tracked for two days and never found it - only thing I can figure is bullet hit a rib and either only hit one lung or disintegrated on the surface), lost a couple sets of tenderloins because of bullet fragments when shooting ballistic tips and match type bullets. I've been hunting for 20 years, definitely haven't seen or done it all, but practicing long and hunting short has always worked well - loading heavier and therefore slower with a good quality bullet just works for me. I have a lot of respect for guys who have the skill to shoot long range, but I definitely question a lot of the "one shot long range kills" you will find on YouTube especially when they are edited films used for marketing a product.

Your mileage may vary,




Lol! Here we go again.... Didn’t find the animal so the bullet failed..... Haha! Keep these coming they brighten my day!
You missed! Man up.
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I wish I missed, the blood trail I followed says i didn't. That was years ago but it still bugs me.

I screwed up, i didn't recover that deer - if you know a better way to "man up" I'm all ears but being as I don't know you and you don't know me - and I'm not in the habit of picking fights with faceless people online....have a great day and thanks for contributing to the conversation.
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Dean2 said:
Sorry but if you listen to this whole thing, the guy talks out of both sides of his mouth. "No business shooting at our majestic game if you are just going to wound it" but admits to shooting an elk in the ass and then tracking it to finish it, because that is all he had to shoot at. Says 300 Mag doesn't have enough energy at 900 yards to shoot elk but has a raft of 7 Mag bullets as examples of what he shot at 600 to 800 yards. A 7 Rem Mag has no more energy at that distance than a 300 Mag. There is some stuff I agree with him on but in general this guy is a sanctimonious, pontificating windbag, in my opinion.
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Glad I'm not the only one that noticed this. After hearing about his ass shot I had to shut it off. Before that it was a bunch of "I know everything and no one else knows anything". One of his other videos was a laughable one as well where he said him and only him knows how to build a real accurate rifle.
 
I realize it is a bit of a stretch to say a bullet "failed" when the game is recovered close to where it was shot.
But I have made a personal decision about such things, and I would like to assert that I am not asking anyone
else to apply my principles to themselves.

However, If, when I recover a bullet, the jacket and core are not still intact, that bullet is immediately pulled
from game bullet use, and relegated to practice only. When I see only the jacket, or nothing but small pieces
of core and jacket in the dead animal, I consider that a bullet "failure".

You are welcome to call me opinionated....I accept that designation readily. Having shot in excess of 100 head
of game with Partitions has made me that way. One of the most dependable big game bullets made. Today, we
are blessed with many very good choices to hunt big game with. To deliberately choose an inferior performing
bullet just because it is slightly more accurate seems unconscionable in my books. Dave.
 
Eagleye said:
I realize it is a bit of a stretch to say a bullet "failed" when the game is recovered close to where it was shot.
But I have made a personal decision about such things, and I would like to assert that I am not asking anyone
else to apply my principles to themselves.

However, If, when I recover a bullet, the jacket and core are not still intact, that bullet is immediately pulled
from game bullet use, and relegated to practice only. When I see only the jacket, or nothing but small pieces
of core and jacket in the dead animal, I consider that a bullet "failure".

You are welcome to call me opinionated....I accept that designation readily. Having shot in excess of 100 head
of game with Partitions has made me that way. One of the most dependable big game bullets made. Today, we
are blessed with many very good choices to hunt big game with. To deliberately choose an inferior performing
bullet just because it is slightly more accurate seems unconscionable in my books. Dave.
Click to expand...


Guess I’ll be opinionated alongside you Eagleye. Pretty well sums up how I view things as well. I haven’t killed as much game, but when I’m opening them up and or processing game and see a jacket here, fragments there, I get an uneasy feeling of “I’d have been screwed if the shot was a bit off”. I prefer to prepare for the worst with bullets capable of handling the game when things go sideways.

Also the more I read and think of things, the less I want lead touching anything I plan on eating.
 
Eagleye said:
I realize it is a bit of a stretch to say a bullet "failed" when the game is recovered close to where it was shot.
But I have made a personal decision about such things, and I would like to assert that I am not asking anyone
else to apply my principles to themselves.

However, If, when I recover a bullet, the jacket and core are not still intact, that bullet is immediately pulled
from game bullet use, and relegated to practice only. When I see only the jacket, or nothing but small pieces
of core and jacket in the dead animal, I consider that a bullet "failure".

You are welcome to call me opinionated....I accept that designation readily. Having shot in excess of 100 head
of game with Partitions has made me that way. One of the most dependable big game bullets made. Today, we
are blessed with many very good choices to hunt big game with. To deliberately choose an inferior performing
bullet just because it is slightly more accurate seems unconscionable in my books. Dave.
Click to expand...
How can you say that the bullet failed if it performed in the way it was designed to perform? I think what you really mean is that the bullet didn’t perform to your expectations of the way a hunting bullet should perform.
 
I haven't seen a lot of comments in this long thread that really pertain to the title. Most guys that don't use Bergers are just telling people not to use them. Was hoping someone or multiple people would of posted poor wound channel pics of no expansion or over expansion etc. But there has been none of that. As I said earlier the Bergers have worked great for me and the way I hunt, be it near or far. Haven't had one bullet that I would say failed. I do realize that it will happen eventually. But the same could be said no matter what the bullet you use. Every hit on a animal is going to give a different result depending on range, bone hit etc. Eventually a bullet could fail. But I also agree that when guys kill a animal that bullet did not fail, you got your animal.
 
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Not having the experience of Eagleye, I choose to use his and others like his knowledge. It isn’t difficult to read between the lines of most of the posters who are willing to use a hunting bullet with a significantly narrower application than one that is slightly less accurate. Like my brother sitting on a gravel bar with $10K of long range hunting system, a solution waiting for the properly precise problem to solve. Or buying a Vette for a daily driver in northern Canada while the neighbors roll in an SUV or pickup. Not wrong, just a narrower, less flexible solution. You bump an animal out of its bed at 40yds, 27” barrelled 12lbs rifle up for a quick shot shoulder/boiler room with your target bullet screaming along at over 3K. If you take that shot, maybe an accubond is a better choice. If you run the other way 400yds to a solid rest, turn, and deliver the perfect lunger, you are Berger man. YMMV of course.
 
beeman2 said:
I haven't seen a lot of comments in this long thread that really pertain to the title. Most guys that don't use Bergers are just telling people not to use them. Was hoping someone or multiple people would of posted poor wound channel pics of no expansion or over expansion etc. But there has been none of that. As I said earlier the Bergers have worked great for me and the way I hunt, be it near or far. Haven't had one bullet that I would say failed. I do realize that it will happen eventually. But the same could be said no matter what the bullet you use. Every hit on a animal is going to give a different result depending on range, bone hit etc. Eventually a bullet could fail. But I also agree that when guys kill a animal that bullet did not fail, you got your animal.
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That was why I posted that video - shows cross-sections of Berger bullets alongside partitions. Opinions about the guy in the video notwithstanding.

This seems a lot like a Elmer Kieth vs Jack O' Conner type debate - both ways will work, the issue is which works better, and that's pretty subjective. I'm with Eagleeye on this one - I know what has worked for me and what hasn't - but that definitely doesn't mean I know everything or that the discussion isn't worth having.
 
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