Poppycock. Alberta hardly puts any money into the fund, and withdrawls most of the investment revenue. A report by the Fraser institute claimed the fund would have been worth $42B if they contributed 20% of oil revenues (as Alaska does) and worth $121B if they contributed all of it like k Norway does - and that report is from 2011 and there has been a lot of money made since then.
Fish and Game Association opposes Jason Kenney's proposal to sell Crown land
- Thread starter Thomas D'Arcy McGee
- Start date
Poppycock. Alberta hardly puts any money into the fund, and withdrawls most of the investment revenue. A report by the Fraser institute claimed the fund would have been worth $42B if they contributed 20% of oil revenues (as Alaska does) and worth $121B if they contributed all of it like k Norway does - and that report is from 2011 and there has been a lot of money made since then.
I will not debate the fact that Alberta’s governments over the last decade or so have been incompetent and do not have a lot to show for all the resource revenue the province has produced. In most cases they were just giving the voters what they wanted. The best of everything and low taxes. It looks like it may be catching up to us. But whether the Norway, Alberta comparison is a fair one has been debated for years and it has always came down to who’s side you were on.
Decade or so? Alberta basically stopped adding to the fund back in like 1987.
But that's not the point. My point is trying to find an easy excuse like the NDP or equalization payments is a bull#### scapegoat and doesn't address the actual problem at hand. Neither of those things (or most other single topics people try to blame) are at the root of the problem, they are at best minor factors that contribute to the problem. If oil prices were still high then Alberta's economy would be booming regardless of ndp or conservative government, regardless of equalization payments, and regardless of the market access issues caused by a lack of pipelines.
You guys ever do a little research on line? Be careful what you wish for.
To be clear, the average Norwegian household pays roughly $70,000 per year in tax. Including the state’s oil income, government tax revenue exceeds $100,000 per household.
Yes, they get free healthcare, free education, and pretty fountains. But for $100,000 per year? The value they get for what they pay is pitiful.
You could pay privately for the most expensive health plans and private schools in the world and still have tens of thousands of dollars in walking around money.
To be clear, the average Norwegian household pays roughly $70,000 per year in tax. Including the state’s oil income, government tax revenue exceeds $100,000 per household.
Yes, they get free healthcare, free education, and pretty fountains. But for $100,000 per year? The value they get for what they pay is pitiful.
You could pay privately for the most expensive health plans and private schools in the world and still have tens of thousands of dollars in walking around money.
Also never mentioned is the difference in revenue. When you're forced by your own country to sell oil for 1/4 of the world market price, pretty hard to put anything away. But as far as the original topic, it is sad to see such short sighted solutions to systemic problems.
Average minimum wage is around $21usd (there is no minimum wage nationally, but collective agreements in most sectors set it an average of around $21usd) so its hard to compare tax burdens on dollar figures alone. However you are correct in your assessment that Norway pays a lot of taxes, they are one of the highest taxed country in the world.
I'm not sure what income tax rates in Norway have to do with Alberta not putting non renewable resource revenue into their fund though?
Can you please elaborate? Global markets set the price on oil not the government? Its supply and demand - there is more production than demand which causes an over supply which drives the price down. That's economics 101, and that's why the Alberta government is reducing production.
Also, Alberta oil will never be worth the same as western Texas intermediate because Alberta oil takes more to refine.
Takes more to refine...and has lots of aspired products that can be made from it. Also the southern refineries actually NEED our oil to make their refining work. The truth is we’ve been screwed over but don’t worrymthenrestmof Canada is dancing on our grave after we’ve given them over 200 billion in transfers. It’s ok because our grave is your grave.
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Donny Fenn1
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- East Kootenays
As a former Albertan I love this example. Alberta would have trillions of dollars do if it got to keep the money and reinvest it in Alberta. Unfortunately there's this ominous power in the east that feels it can do things with Alberta money like keep Bombardier afloat or send it to Hamas.
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Alberta currently is selling oil at 10 to 12 dollars a barrel due to having a single market. World demand has absolutely zero effect on us, and economics 101 goes straight out the window when you are prevented from bringing your product to market. As far as the necessary refining, we have lots of light sweet to get out as well, and the ability to blend heavy oil into a lighter product.
I'm not an Albertan, but this is all such bullsh$t! Any politician who thinks selling crownland to get out of debt is a short sighted idiot. I could give two sh$ts if he is a conservative or not, leave our land alone.
Kenney, unfortunately, is an idiot but the only viable alternative, that's why Rachel could win again.
Grizz
Kenney, unfortunately, is an idiot but the only viable alternative, that's why Rachel could win again.
Grizz
And if the present government is re-elected, they will keep designating more and more land as parks and we will still lose recreation opportunity. But I guess it won't matter, because nobody will be able to afford recreation activities.
M12shooter
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- East St. Paul, mb
I thought there was a huge green movement in our society today? Goes to show environmental issues, land/habitat management are simply buzz words thrown around by politicians to gain votes.
It is all bullsh$t, at the end of the day all they care about is money. When oil was booming Klien let the oil companies take it for nothing. It was great for the economy and business. Unfortunately like most resources it doesn't boom for ever. People have short memories, now they are planning on selling tax payer owned land to make up for their poor planning. Other provinces protected their resources and the oil companies that operated there paid dearly to do so. At the end of the day there was no massive boom economy waiting to fail, just steady growth.
No pipeline or anything else is going to help Alberta, it will take years for a pipeline to be made, and nobody wants our oil anyway.
They claim to represent Alberta hunters and fishermen, but they are an old boys club that collects a lot of cash, to spend for their own amusement.
Hey, actually they still own it, every public meeting I've attended lately opens with thanking them for tolerating our presence.
Grizz
Selll it to the people who want to use the land. Like the old days you have to build on it and develop it or you lose it. Holding hundreds of millions of acres that are not in use does nothing. If you want to hunt some where buy some land and develop it.
Giving it to the indians will do nothing for Alberta and only end in poverty and destruction. The government should not own any land but for the ones used for its building services. All lands should be in private hands and parks should be held in trust with a board of directors.
Possibly the most assine thing I have read. So we should have no land for nature or animals of any kind? The land is existing as nature, why does it have to be used for anything? By your reasoning we should destroy everything and just build it up. If that land gets in private hands that is exactly what will happen, you are putting a price on nature.
