Lee Reloading Manual Bullet Wieght vs OAL

[Cliveaw0]

I got in to cowboy action shooting in the beginning of 2018 and started reloading 6 months ago. I purchased a used Lee Pro 1000 progressive press and the latest Lee Reload manual from Rusty Wood Trading Co. He had set the press up to reload 38 spl, 130 grains RNFP with 3.6 grains of Tightgroup powder. I checked the setup against the manual and everything was correct.

I now want to load 158 grain SWC bullets but I am a little confused by the information available in the Lee Reloading manual. The manual doesn’t have a column for OAL and from pictures I have seen of a cartridge with a semi wad cutter bullet, it doesn’t look as long as a cartridge with a round nose flat point bullet.
1) Are all 38 spl cartridges 1.550 inches long?
2) As a bullet gets heavier dos it get longer leaving less volume in the finished cartridge for powder?
3) Are all bullets of the same wieght, the same lenght regardless of shape or manufacturer? Wad cutter vs. round nose flat point.
4) Is there a ratio of bullet wieght to bullet lenght to cartridge volume?
5) Does the Lee Reload manual’s recipes factor in the different bullet lenghts so long as the OAL is the one shown at the start of a each calibers recipe section?

 

[CoreyMac]

Just seat to the cannelure. Then roll crimp. Bullet oal is pretty open with a revolver. Bullet manufacturers will put the cannelure in the correct spot to get the proper oal, you will find the oal is not exactly as the "textbook" length. No big issue. As long as the powder weight is correct for the grn of the projectile and you crimp in the cannelure you are fine. I never used to worry about oal until I got into reloading for semi auto. However, I am very careful with brass length. This will cause issues if your brass is not correct length. But I cut magnum brass down to make special loads. IE, 44 mag to special and so forth. That's critical.


Corey

 

[Cliveaw0]

Thanks CoreyMac. So the OAL is not super critical to the final pressure so long as the crimp is at the cannelure and loaded with the powder charge shown in the Lee Reload manual, then it will not cause a catastrophic failure in my revolvers or my 1873 Winchester lever rifle.

 

[CoreyMac]

Thanks CoreyMac. So the OAL is not super critical to the final pressure so long as the crimp is at the cannelure and loaded with the powder charge shown in the Lee Reload manual, then it will not cause a catastrophic failure in my revolvers or my 1873 Winchester lever rifle.

No problems with catastrophic failures. If you are really concerned go to the low powder amounts to start. Those usually are really mild. Just don't get the urge to go less than the lower because you run the risk of squib loads. I have taken 45 acp loads and had to seat them deeper without dismantling them due to chambering issues and I couldn't notice any difference is the power of the load.

Corey

 

[diopter]

I am not sure about the Win1873, but on the Swiss Vetterli, which copied the tube feed mechanism, of the Winchester, the O.A.L. has to be just right to allow trouble-free feeding since it does not a method of holding the rounds in the tube during the feeding process. Rounds that are too short will allow a case still partially in the tube to block movement of the loading gate, and rounds that are too long will do the same.
Check that possibility before settling on a O.AL.

 

[vagrantviking]

I'm sitting here looking at a copy of the Lee Modern Reloading 2nd edition. The last column of every load is minimum over all length. The spread in 158gr 38special is from 1.420 to 1.550.

158gr lead doesn't state bullet shape but does say 1.475" for the titegroup load. 3.2 - 3.8gr.

 

[Cliveaw0]

Thanks vagrantviking. I guess I missed that. So according to the Lee Manaul then it doesn’t matter about the shape of the bullet. All 158 grain bullets no matter the shape will all have the same cartridge OAL. The only thing that changes OAL is the powder then?

 

[cosmic]

The Lee manual is a compilation of data from other parties, so a variety of bullet types are listed. If you want to take matters further, check out other sources such as the Hodgdon website.

 

[vagrantviking]

Like cosmic says, it's a compilation and the different bullet style information was dropped. With cast lead the bullets actual length should not be hugely different from one style to another and loads for lead aren't going to be serious hotrod loads as the bullets fail at higher pressure. It's lengths are a rough guide. The loads for jacketed bullets are more specific.

If you want better information try some other manuals. It's a good idea to accumulate 2 or more additional sources just to cross reference or fill gaps when one has different powders than another.
One excellent reference is Hodgson's Annual magazine. Lot's of loads and includes the newest powders.
https://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/product/hodgdon-hodgdon-reloading-annual-magazine-2017/

Lyman cast bullet reloading guide is good too.
The Lee book is really good but has its limits. Read through the entire thing sometime if you haven't already. I do with every new manual I get and always learn some new things.

 

[nitro-express]

I'm rather new to Cowboy Shooting myself, although I've been reloading for a bit longer. There are a few additional things to learn.

Although a good resource, I don't usually look at the LEE manual for Cowboy data. As stated above, the bullet, in most cases, will be crimped in the cannelure, and that controls the OAL.

If you shoot a '66 or '73, OAL needs to be within certain parameters to feed reliably. What guns do you shoot? What brand of bullet are you wanting to load? Does the bullet manufacturer have data? Do you chronograph your loads? or do you put them on paper to check accuracy?

My experience:

Cowboy loads are generally app 700 fps for hipguns, and app 900 fps for long guns. The goal is to keep the loads light, easy too shoot with a quick recovery from recoil. 38 Special is a good caliber choice. For my '66 I ended up shooting a 147 gr X-Metal painted bullet in 38 Special, it allows me to crimp for a more optimum length. If the OAL gets too long, I can't fit 10 in the magazine, too short and the action is less than smooth. I ended up at app 950 fps. Any lower in velocity and my SD/ES went for a dumper.

Powder choice and primer brand can sometimes lead to some pretty big differences in Velocity, SD (standard deviation) and ES (extreme spread). Fortunately accuracy is not that critical in CAS. Cowboy accurate isn't all that accurate.

I've fooled with a fair # of combinations, post your specific components, if I've had any experience, I'd be happy to share.

Nitro

 

[Cliveaw0]

Vagrantviking, I have read the Lee manual and it is a great source of information for explaining the reloading process and the basics of the science invloved on propellents under pressure. Because of how good I think the first part of the book is I assumed the recipes would be just as great. I am now learning that the recipes are more of a guideline and as a newbie I lack the experience to know how to use guidelines. I need hard and fast rules first and can easy into guidelines as I better understand the reloading science.

I have put the Hodgdon Annual magazine on my wish list. Thank you.

 

[Cliveaw0]

Nitro-express, When I bought my Lee Pro 1000 press from Peter at Rusty Wood Trading Co. he set it up to load Bullet Barn 38 spl. 130gr. RNFP BB with 3.6grs of Hodgdon Tightgroup powder. The brass is a mix of Starline Brass purchased from Rusty Wood Trading Co. and store bought Blazer Brass rounds that I saved the cartridges for reloading. The setup works great and in about 2000 rounds reloaded I have not had any firing issues. About 5% don’t make it into the ammo box but that is beacuse of press operator error. Most of them are high primers because I sometime don’t push the lever all the way up to fully seat the primer. I use those rounds loaded one at a time in my ‘73 Winchester.

Part of the reason I am looking for a new load is because I would like to reload .357 as well and I am trying to find a 38 spl. recipe and a .357 recipe that use the same bullets and powder and are both SASS legal. I already have Hodgdon Tightgroup powder so I thought I would see if there was a common bullet listed for both. Looking through the Lee manual the 158gr. bullet has recipes in both. The only problem is the .357 is just over the SASS speed limit of 1000 fps. I have now found a couple of recipes on the Hodgdon site that look like they will work using a 140 grain bullet.

I don’t have a chronograph yet but knowing me as I learn more about reloading I’ll start wanting to know the fps of my loads even if it is just to confirm that they are SASS legal. Besides, it is a tool I don’t have and that is just wrong.