I would never send one of our bear guards into the field with buckshot,or let them carry it.When your life or the lives of others depend on you and your abilities which includes the tools you carry to do your job. If you carry a shotgun use slugs and practice practice practice.
Bear defender 12 gauge
- Thread starter Leavenworth
- Start date
- Location
- West Quebec
Well said...makes sense
That was very true in my case. Dark out, bear charged starting about 15 paces, dropped it about 8-9 paces. My compact bear defense 12 ga. has Wilson tritium ghost ring sights and honestly I don't recall looking through them at all. Happens so bloody fast. 2 3/4" Breneke slug and no damn way I'd even entertain buck-shot after going though that.
Once you actually experience it you know instantly how silly the notion of using buckshot for this role.
Once you actually experience it you know instantly how silly the notion of using buckshot for this role.
Slugs work. Buckshot is like emptying a 32ACP into a bear.
And use good slugs. Deer slugs are soft lead and might be hllow point. They flatten and break up quickly.
I have a few boxes of Breneke to lend to guys borrowing a gun for protection on a two week canoe trip.
And use good slugs. Deer slugs are soft lead and might be hllow point. They flatten and break up quickly.
I have a few boxes of Breneke to lend to guys borrowing a gun for protection on a two week canoe trip.
I can see a use for.buckshot in cramped areas with lots.of badly arranged tents or Atco trailers tightly packed where a pass through could be an issue.
In the old days, if we had a recurring problem bear in the camp, we'd bait him some place safely away from camp and take action there.
I always have OO buck in case it is needed but keep a couple of boxes of Brenneke slugs for the penetration. I'm down to my last three boxes but I don't work in Canada much these days.
Proper tent alignment in bear habitat.
Improper tent alignment in bear habitat. This one resulted in one teenager dead , the two poorly trained team leaders badly mauled and one polar bear dead.
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Odd - I've never had a soft lead bullet of any kind break up. They do flatten and cause a huge wound channel, but I've never heard of one breaking up. The only time I've seen that is with hard alloy such as wheel weight when it hits bone. As a matter of fact, A heavy, slow-moving pure lead chunk of lead is always my go-to in shotguns, lever guns and muzzle-loaders.
As Geo stated around camp or tents might be the choice ( still not mine). But up here no one tents in bear season June - Dec. Bears are on the ice or denned up having their cubs. Pick your shot. This is with no disrespect to Geo. or his experience just my opinion and my experience.
Leavenworth
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lowermainland B.C.
Okay I have been looking online at shot guns I like the Mossbergs. The Mossberg 590A1 model # 50776 it has a cylinder bore choke how close is that to a modified choke ? Would that be a good choice for choke option ? Is that model legal in Canada ?
Thanks !
Leavenworth
Shotgun choice is simple...Remington Model 870 with 18 1/2' barrel with either rifle sights or ghost ring sights (Tritium front sight best option for low light conditions). Tactical or Police doesn't matter too much, just no front bead only. Prefer extended magazine for extra capacity.
Reasons:
Number one choice of military and law enforcement due to RELIABILITY! Dual steel feed rails as opposed to single aluminum feed rails in other makes.
Extended magazine tubes allow for up to 7 shots in firearm.
Rifle or ghost ring sights most accurate and durable. Good designs will not cause hang up issues.
Only model allowed by most companies hiring Wildlife Monitors (bear watch/problem wildlife) in BC.
Slugs only! 2 3/4 or 3" Buckshot not allowed for Wildlife Monitor work in BC. 000 buckshot will NOT reliably penetrate 1" plywood at 15 yards...do you want to trust your life on this during a charge?
Rubber bullets/non-lethal ammo not allowed in BC.
If choked, Cylinder only...or you may damage your shotgun using slugs. (Bulged barrel or worse)
Regardless of presentation, aim for big bone! Head, shoulder, spine...
A solid hit to big bone will drop the animal, kill shots can be given after that.
As stated earlier...practice! With what you have. Muscle memory and mental preparedness biggest factors to success in such a situation.
Better yet, take a course where you have to be tested for firearms proficiency. You are tested on time, accuracy and ability to hit a moving target (charging bear).
Have had to shoot a charging black bear, years ago, at work.
Luckily, I had a rifle in my hands at the time, as I had seen it enter the worksite, before it saw me, and I had gotten the rifle out and loaded, before it charged, unprovoked, upon seeing me.
I shot it with my lever action in 375 Win (as I did not have a shotgun at the time) at 5 yards, and again as it turned away. A finishing shot was given when it stopped 15 yards away. 3 shots in the vitals with 200 gr bullets. But I had not hit big bone. First shot was in the chest, under the chin. I did not have the training then, that I do now.
I have shot many black bears and a grizzly while hunting over the years. This has added to my experience on this topic.
Have also taken the training several times over the years, and helped develop our new Wildlife Monitoring policy a few years ago.
Reasons:
Number one choice of military and law enforcement due to RELIABILITY! Dual steel feed rails as opposed to single aluminum feed rails in other makes.
Extended magazine tubes allow for up to 7 shots in firearm.
Rifle or ghost ring sights most accurate and durable. Good designs will not cause hang up issues.
Only model allowed by most companies hiring Wildlife Monitors (bear watch/problem wildlife) in BC.
Slugs only! 2 3/4 or 3" Buckshot not allowed for Wildlife Monitor work in BC. 000 buckshot will NOT reliably penetrate 1" plywood at 15 yards...do you want to trust your life on this during a charge?
Rubber bullets/non-lethal ammo not allowed in BC.
If choked, Cylinder only...or you may damage your shotgun using slugs. (Bulged barrel or worse)
Regardless of presentation, aim for big bone! Head, shoulder, spine...
A solid hit to big bone will drop the animal, kill shots can be given after that.
As stated earlier...practice! With what you have. Muscle memory and mental preparedness biggest factors to success in such a situation.
Better yet, take a course where you have to be tested for firearms proficiency. You are tested on time, accuracy and ability to hit a moving target (charging bear).
Have had to shoot a charging black bear, years ago, at work.
Luckily, I had a rifle in my hands at the time, as I had seen it enter the worksite, before it saw me, and I had gotten the rifle out and loaded, before it charged, unprovoked, upon seeing me.
I shot it with my lever action in 375 Win (as I did not have a shotgun at the time) at 5 yards, and again as it turned away. A finishing shot was given when it stopped 15 yards away. 3 shots in the vitals with 200 gr bullets. But I had not hit big bone. First shot was in the chest, under the chin. I did not have the training then, that I do now.
I have shot many black bears and a grizzly while hunting over the years. This has added to my experience on this topic.
Have also taken the training several times over the years, and helped develop our new Wildlife Monitoring policy a few years ago.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
This is not true, you can shoot foster slugs through a full choke. Will it shoot accurately is the question, there are lots and lots of older fixed choke shotguns that have been used for decades to kill large game with slugs. Any modern shotgun with screw in chokes can pass slugs, they swage down to pass through. You’ll likely find the more open IC and mod chokes are the most accurate though.
Leavenworth
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lowermainland B.C.
Okay Thank you for the above replies all of you ! Still have questions ?
Is the amount of shells you can carry in a shotgun 5 but the capacity to carry more is lawful ? Example . The shotgun could carry 7 but you can only load 5 ?
Mossberg 590A1 has a screw in ejector . Remington's is welded in . Is this a big deal ?
Should the defense shotgun I choose have the option for screw in chokes or just go with a modified ?
I'm still having trouble with the whole choke thing . I understand Full choke , it keeps the pattern the tightest but some of the other terms used by manufacturers are not all the same ? Example one manufacture uses the term cylinder bore, What's that ?
Thanks !
Levanworth
Is the amount of shells you can carry in a shotgun 5 but the capacity to carry more is lawful ? Example . The shotgun could carry 7 but you can only load 5 ?
Mossberg 590A1 has a screw in ejector . Remington's is welded in . Is this a big deal ?
Should the defense shotgun I choose have the option for screw in chokes or just go with a modified ?
I'm still having trouble with the whole choke thing . I understand Full choke , it keeps the pattern the tightest but some of the other terms used by manufacturers are not all the same ? Example one manufacture uses the term cylinder bore, What's that ?
Thanks !
Levanworth
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
Sorry for the long read lol.
Semi auto shotguns are limited to 5 shells of whatever it’s chambered in, manual action shotguns aka bolt or pump actions are legally able load as many shells in the mag tube as will fit, when hunting all shotguns may be limited to 2 in the tube and 1 in the chamber. It will depend on your provincial hunting regs, in bc when hunting with “shot” you are in the 2+1 limit, when hunting with slugs you can load a pump action with as many as it will hold and a semi auto with 5.
Yes the Mossberg has an easier to replace ejector, personal preference I’d say with that one. I have yet to have to replace an 870 ejector so it doesn’t matter to me, I seem to prefer 870’s but the 590a1 isn’t something I’d throw out of bed if you know what I mean.
I would go with screw in chokes, you will notice that different brands of shells will pattern differently out of the same barrel. Having screw in chokes gives you the option to tailor you shot pattern not only at distances but with different ammo if need be. Cylinder bore is the most open constriction of barrel, good for slugs and 00buck usually but not always good for birdshot or other smaller shot sizes where a tighter pattern is preferred. Basically a screw in choke is more versatile than a fixed choke if you will be using it for multiple uses, you can shoot slugs and lead shot through a fixed full choke but it may not give you good accuracy with slugs or an evenly spaced shot pattern at distances with bird or buckshot.
Go on YouTube and search “Patterning a shotgun”, there are lots of videos that will explain it and show you shot spreds at multiple ranges with multiple chokes. It’s a bit confusing at first but once you see what it’s all about it’s really simple, for me a shotgun should have a choke. I can let that slide if it’s only going to be shooting buckshot and slugs closer in, if it throws a wide but evenly spread birdshot pattern I can always aim high at shorter ranges if I want to shoot a grouse under 25y. Patterning at 10 out to 25y will tell me where and how big my shot pattern will be, hope that helps.
Leavenworth
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Lowermainland B.C.
ButcherBill
I appreciate in depth replies = more information ! I'm going to have more questions so hang in there ! Please !
Thanks
Leavenworth
I appreciate in depth replies = more information ! I'm going to have more questions so hang in there ! Please !
Thanks
Leavenworth
