Schimdt and Bender compared to Nightforce.

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I recently looked through the S&B 3-12x50 Professional and was again favourably impressed with their optical quality, the low profile turrets and return to zero were excellent features. I had to deal with them on one occasion and found the service without fault.
bigbull
 
I wish I could say the same. My experience with this manufacturer's product has not been favourable but perhaps I am too particular. I would have thought for a scope costing several thousand dollars they could have mustered up enough energy to reply and apologize but I guess they feel the importer and dealer should absorb the inconvenience and shipping expenses.
 
Maybe I missed something, but after all that's been said, which scope's coming on top??? (not to say "the best") Maybe by rating on 10 each of the following : clarity, reticles options, magn power availability and PRICE.
 
From my detailed unmounted comparison, based on image quality, features (for my use) and price....Nightforce wins hands down.

Without seeing the internals and design prints we can't comment.

I do like the power range and reticle of the S&B but the short tube (mounting range) and the 4th protrusion (reticle illuminator) @ the eyepiece .....turned me off......LOL


Sorry I couldn't be of more help. As you can see S&B does have a good following of people who found their product to be second to none. I was hoping to agree, but at this time....unfortunately I cannot.
 
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what was the problem you had? I sent them an email when it was discovered that my 5-25 had some extra dots on the lens (paint splash from the reticle I guess). I had a reply within 36 hours. complete with an apology. shoot me a PM (I've already sent you one about something else anyhow), and I'll give you the email addy I have.
 
I'll see if I can post some pictures. The scope had some machining blems on the 34mm main body tube. Photos were sent to the importer and S&B for comment. Only the importer replied while S&B had no comment or customer support. I am guessing the problem stems from dirty/contaminated tooling causing gauling during turning operations. Thinking about it now, I should have mic'd the tube to see how much variation there was and to see if they tried to polish the worst out. OD measures would have revealed that this was done and that they intentially tried to sell a blem'd scope at full price. Perhaps one day S&B will advise.

Needless to say once you discover defects like this you start to worry about the rest of the scope like the internals which we cannot really inspect.

I am surprised for such a small company that they could not or would not provide any comment.

Had there been a replacement scope on the shelf or available in a couple of weeks I would have liked to keep it. Unfortunately there were no new units on the shelf to exchange with and the wait was a couple or several months. The importer would not allow me to try the scope out (despite photos showing the blems) until the replacement arrived and thats fine but given the scope was already a blem unit I was a bit surprised. That delay coupled with poor S&B product support made the decision fairly clear - send it back.

Now if the optics performed I would have gone the mile in the wait, but I'm afraid they did not. The limited scope mounting flexibility (due to the illumination feature) added to balance beam..... 3 turrets is already a bit much to endure but worth it. Adding a 4th protrusion to snag and catch on things in the field really didn't appeal to me either. The adjustments and all of the crevices added to negative side for my use.........but in all honesty if it performed optically....I'd go with the flow. Optics was the most important part to me and the scope just did not deliver. Perhaps this one unit really had more issues then the main tube...perhaps a lemon.

Previous issues with S&B were contamination in the scope internals and as a result I stopped looking at them until they came out with the New 5-25x56 which I feel is the ideal power range....for my use.

I guess now we will have to look to the Hensoldt line....
 
Myself and at least 6 other people I shoot with have the 5-25 X 56 PM-II S&B and have no problems what so ever, and rate it above Nightforce, USO,Leupold and the like.

With the different length rails I find the "limited" mounting area to be of no consequnce. The turrets are large, but that makes them easy to use and find in the dark. The Illuminated reticle is something I can live without, but is still a nice feature. Funny that the U.S.M.C. & C.F. find this scope just fine for "field" use.................

With the complaints being aired here inregards to S&B and their customer service, I must mention that Nightforce also had similar issues with a 2.5 X 10 Illuminated reticle scope one of the other Moderators here bought.Lets just say that after his experience with the dealer and manufacturer he no longer owns any Nightforce optics.

ANY manufacturer or product line can have problems/issues (product or Customer Service) from time to time.

SKBY.
 
Skullboy said:
Myself and at least 6 other people I shoot with have the 5-25 X 56 PM-II S&B and have no problems what so ever, and rate it above Nightforce, USO,Leupold and the like.

With the different length rails I find the "limited" mounting area to be of no consequnce. The turrets are large, but that makes them easy to use and find in the dark. The Illuminated reticle is something I can live without, but is still a nice feature. Funny that the U.S.M.C. & C.F. find this scope just fine for "field" use.................

With the complaints being aired here inregards to S&B and their customer service, I must mention that Nightforce also had similar issues with a 2.5 X 10 Illuminated reticle scope one of the other Moderators here bought.Lets just say that after his experience with the dealer and manufacturer he no longer owns any Nightforce optics.

ANY manufacturer or product line can have problems/issues (product or Customer Service) from time to time.

SKBY.
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If you are referring to me I still have the 2.5-10 nightforce.The problem was with the dealer and some one on this board inferring that I damaged the scope.When I sent it back to nightforce directly it came back fixed and is still 100%.I plan to get a 5.5-22x50 to go on my 700 tactical but I did just get a s&b short dot to put on my tavor:D:evil:
 
I should mention that there were two other people at the range on one of the days of testing and both were long time shooters - senior fellas. They gave the Nightforce thumbs up and the S&B thumbs down. They both did like the reticle on the S&B when compared to the mildot Nightforce reticle.

The large knobs really weren't a big (pun) issue. They certainly look like they would collect a fair bit of contaminates and a chore to clean if exposed to dirt.


I think we'll always find a variety of responses on products. Also people select product for a variety of reasons. It will be interesting to see what products appear in the next year.
 
what was the reason for the thumbs down? dust and dirt certainly hasn't been an issue with people using them in the sandbox. Mine got dirty as hell at the sniper match this year, rain, mud, dirt, gravel etc. took about 2 minutes to clean.
 
In terms of cleaning, if you compare the nightforce turrets to the S&B I think the first impression everyone will have is that they will collect and be more difficult to clean then the Nightforce.

Perhaps they are easier to clean then what I expect but they certainly have multiple catch areas.

If the S&B scope I received was furnished with a manual a person could have researched it a bit more, but since the scope I received did not have one, this wasn't possible.
 
that's one ##### I'll share Joe (how come you post from both accounts on this stuff?). I had to download my manual for my PMII. I really don't see the "catch points" though. If the CF, the Marines and dozens of other specialized forces use these scopes I don't think cleaning can be a big deal. and actually looking at my Loopy, which has been dragged through all kinds of ####, I never did anything other than hose it off and oil it. never had much crap stuck anywhere on it.
 
I think some of you are missing the point. The S&B has features which set it apart from the Nightforce. They are functional features for special applications. For my shooting (and some of clients)..... long range and hunting the S&B has no feature which can warrant spending that sum of money. At less then $2000, the Nightforce is a steal. Optically the one I tested yielded "0" to the S&B for the extra $$$.

So back to what I initally said....if you need or want the features that the S&B has, then it is a scope fitted for your purpose, I.E. military etc.

I have always liked and preferred 56mm objectives and was always willing to spend the extra $$ and make do with the bulk. Others would not.

If I honestly felt the the S&B was better optically and for MY needs, I would have kept it (waited for the exchange.....no matter how painful) . Unfortunately it was not.

Back to ....... has anyone tried a comparable Hensoldt (is that spelling right??)??
 
Look, ### international is a dealer of Nightforce....

while wolverine supply is a dealer of S&B.

I dont like this kind of post in CGN, dealers should not be posting reviews that trample on other's product.
 
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I think there is some confusion here. We were actually thinking of carrying the S&B line. This thread is exactly what it is with no BIAS!

Wolverine is the importer of the product and has been great to deal with.

Lets not make more of this then what it is.
 
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PGW Steve said:
S&B is the best, bottom line. Wolverine is fantastic to deal with, bottom line. If you want a S&B give Pat and John an e-mail and they will set you up with the best of mechanical and optical performance with customer service to back it up.
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Steve - better then Zeiss Hensoldt? Lets here why...
 
Sounds like someone has a bug up his ass towards S&B. Then asks about Hensoldt?:eek: Sounds like sour grapes to me. Anyway, if I had the dough, S&B is the best, f**k the rest
 
JoeP said:
Steve - better then Zeiss Hensoldt? Lets here why...
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For a start the S&B's 34 mm tube allows greater elevation adjustment than the standard 30mm tube. All the vertical adjustment can be made with 1 or 2 rotations of the turret, depending which turret you chose, so you will not get lost adjusting from intermediate range to long range to short range, the etched reticle can be used for range estimation at any magnification, and the controls are set up in such a way that they are visible when laying prone behind the rifle. Even if the Zeiss quality matched that of S&B, these characteristics alone justify the extra money.
 
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