Canadian Armys "Interm Pistol Program"

DT741 said:
It was hilarious seeing the second group trying to jam 10 magazines in the issued tacvest and play Tetris stuffing the patrol pack with minimal gear and having to unpack everything when they wanted to get something. Ever witness a poor soul trying to fish out a grenade out of the issued tacvest designated "grenade pouch" or a machine gunner dislocating a shoulder trying to get a fresh 200rds drum while under contact ?

I have done and witnessed both and a lot more which makes me and a lot of people say that the TacVest is at best a peacekeeping fishing vest that is suitable for those who need to carry stuff with no intention to use it as its not part of their main job description.
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Was forced to use the issued. I had to attach a quad pouch to the bottom of my tac vest to hold 4, plus I had a redi mag, so I carried 2 on the gun.
 
OkayShooter said:
Was forced to use the issued. I had to attach a quad pouch to the bottom of my tac vest to hold 4, plus I had a redi mag, so I carried 2 on the gun.
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Anyone who thinks the tac-vest was a decent piece of kit (or anything other than terrible) only has to look at the buckles to clip your mags in....
 
OkayShooter said:
Was forced to use the issued. I had to attach a quad pouch to the bottom of my tac vest to hold 4, plus I had a redi mag, so I carried 2 on the gun.
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I had strips of 1" tubular nylon sewn in the middle part of my vest (both side of the zipper) and some 1" velcro strips sewn on both side of the vest in a "MOLLE" fashion back in 2006. It made it somewhat usesable but options were limited back then but we had John in his basement (which would become Warrior Gear), DZ Tac and CP Gear who made our life easier.
 
tharkhold said:
At least we know for sure that it will be the nato standard 9mm round... if we didnt have such a standard, someone would probably have dreamt up a "canadian caliber" for a "canadian pistol".
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9mm Canadian. It's like a 9mm but rimmed so it feeds like dog ####.
 
I had to use one of those Inglis Browning in 1990 at cfsac. Officials wouldn't let me use my cz75. Garbage back then, too. Should get a license to produce something like the cz 75 or 85. Reliable, solid, steel, accurate, simple to field strip and reassemble...how a pistol should be.
 
Daver_II said:
Anyone who thinks the tac-vest was a decent piece of kit (or anything other than terrible) only has to look at the buckles to clip your mags in....
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Just to play devil's advocate a bit more, the overwhelming majority of aftermarket stuff at the time used the same side release buckle and velcro combo... plenty of it shown in the pics right above.
 
DT741 said:
And there is 2 classes to those people:

- too cheap to care

- don't spend enough time actually doing their job with this sub-standard gear we get issued. This class usually don't know better and are quick to call those who like quality working gear "jo kit" or "joe cool" or any reference to the occult world of special operation, but then they try it and are usually saying stuff like "why dont we get this issued"

It was hilarious seeing the second group trying to jam 10 magazines in the issued tacvest and play Tetris stuffing the patrol pack with minimal gear and having to unpack everything when they wanted to get something. Ever witness a poor soul trying to fish out a grenade out of the issued tacvest designated "grenade pouch" or a machine gunner dislocating a shoulder trying to get a fresh 200rds drum while under contact ?

I have done and witnessed both and a lot more which makes me and a lot of people say that the TacVest is at best a peacekeeping fishing vest that is suitable for those who need to carry stuff with no intention to use it as its not part of their main job description.
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Ohhhhh.... I forgot about the frag pouches. Those things were downright dangerous, and I don't mean from the tight fit. The lack of a spoon retainer is BS. Enough jostling and a frag gets turned around enough so a ring ends up dangling out the flap. No bueno. A slot to retain the spoon is a must on a grenade pouch. That said, it never seemed to have proved to be an issue, so maybe I'm just making a problem up. But I sure preferred my pouches that weren't bejeezus tight and had spoon slots.

As it happens, I was put to work compiling the 3-06 AAR after I got back to KAF and before my chalk left. I'm very sure I quite illegally saved a copy somewhere, but my recollection is that of all the points about gear and weapons, the tac vest just didn't come up. I find it odd to be in this position, because I sure didn't use it, and generally don't like it, but that doesn't mean every other soldier will. More to the point, where to stuff four extra mags is hardly a matter of rocket surgery. It's amazing how we forgot about bandoleers.
 
flashman2 said:
Ohhhhh.... I forgot about the frag pouches. Those things were downright dangerous, and I don't mean from the tight fit. The lack of a spoon retainer is BS. Enough jostling and a frag gets turned around enough so a ring ends up dangling out the flap. No bueno. A slot to retain the spoon is a must on a grenade pouch. That said, it never seemed to have proved to be an issue, so maybe I'm just making a problem up. But I sure preferred my pouches that weren't bejeezus tight and had spoon slots.

As it happens, I was put to work compiling the 3-06 AAR after I got back to KAF and before my chalk left. I'm very sure I quite illegally saved a copy somewhere, but my recollection is that of all the points about gear and weapons, the tac vest just didn't come up. I find it odd to be in this position, because I sure didn't use it, and generally don't like it, but that doesn't mean every other soldier will. More to the point, where to stuff four extra mags is hardly a matter of rocket surgery. It's amazing how we forgot about bandoleers.
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Hahaha bandoleers !! Since this summer, all we've been issued for ammo was from 2004-2006 packed in bandoleers. 600 per box, 100 rounds bandoleers. Good times :p

I think the reason for the lack of AAR about kit&weapon is because most ignore the existence of the "unsatisfactory kit report". I'm 16 years in and learn about it maybe 3-4 years ago.

On the other end, we've been in a room with the "fine folks"of DLR... Being told that cadpat boots were the best boots ever designed and being told that our Lowas, Haix, Danners were substandard compared to the cadpat boots... Hell we have people within our own CoC stalling progress with their dinosaur mentality of "issued kit is good, issued kit only".

Sometimes its just simpler to wear what we want/need and deal with it if caught than going thru the process of asking or trying to ger things changed. Fortunatly, just like the real dinosaurs, the asteroid is slowly coming and phasing out mentalities ranging between mental retardation to personnal war on effeciency/confort.

Had to explain my work desktop background to my CSM, he laughed pretty hard and asked me which one he was in the picture :p
 
ShootMeStraight said:
No matter what the CAF gets they won’t take care of it properly. I’m not combat arms so I’m not sure how it works but does a rifleman use the same rifle for every range visit/exercise/deployment so they can properly take care of their own?
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You get posted to your unit and wherever you end up, you are attributed a weapon depending of your position. C7/C8/C9 with or without pistol.

It usually follows you on deployement and in trainings. If you go on courses, the school will loan you one for the duration of the course.

I have been in units where you got a rifle assigned to you and followed you wherever you were posted within the unit (pain in the ass on the logitical point of view), some units where as long as you stated in the same company, you kept whatever weapon was assigned unless you changed position, and I've recently seen a unit where you had a rifle assigned in one platoon and you had a new one reassigned if you changed platoon... Thats mental retardation in my book and wanting to reinvent the wheel.

So yea in some way or the other we are assigned a weapon so we can take care of it, clean it and shoot it.
 
DT741 said:
You get posted to your unit and wherever you end up, you are attributed a weapon depending of your position. C7/C8/C9 with or without pistol.

It usually follows you on deployement and in trainings. If you go on courses, the school will loan you one for the duration of the course.

I have been in units where you got a rifle assigned to you and followed you wherever you were posted within the unit (pain in the ass on the logitical point of view), some units where as long as you stated in the same company, you kept whatever weapon was assigned unless you changed position, and I've recently seen a unit where you had a rifle assigned in one platoon and you had a new one reassigned if you changed platoon... Thats mental retardation in my book and wanting to reinvent the wheel.

So yea in some way or the other we are assigned a weapon so we can take care of it, clean it and shoot it.
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Thanks for the info, very thorough! I'm Air Force so I rarely get to touch a firearm at work.
 
Sinasta said:
I recall a member on here who was on the CAFSAC team and they used his rifle on some bmq course and obviously some one took a screwdriver to scrape the carbon off the crown.
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Screwdriver, cleaning rod, gerber... I cringe everytime I see someone scraping the crown like that.

I have witnessed cleaning rods hooked to a cordless drill to clean barrels...

As I mentionned in earlier posts, there are some mentalities that are slowly disapearing but there is some hardcore believers of the whole "parade ready" mentality... Meanwhile its a lot of effort to un-teach all these things that people do because "thats how its always been"
 
at this point just take a hat, throw in 2 pieces of paper, one has Glock 19 on it the other Sig 320. Reach in pull out winner. Done. Spending any money duplicating tests done by literally dozens and dozens of other militaries and agencies is a waste of of it. They could even just ask for the entire in depth trial info from the US, Germany, Norway etc etc etc and use those results to determine the winner. But the hat method would be quicker.
 
Slavex said:
at this point just take a hat, throw in 2 pieces of paper, one has Glock 19 on it the other Sig 320. Reach in pull out winner. Done. Spending any money duplicating tests done by literally dozens and dozens of other militaries and agencies is a waste of of it. They could even just ask for the entire in depth trial info from the US, Germany, Norway etc etc etc and use those results to determine the winner. But the hat method would be quicker.
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You're talking about the Canadian forces. They love wasting money on garbage. They will have a secret hat, with someone else's used garbage, because HEY its a better deal.

New F35. Buys used F18, just as old as the ones being replaced.
Should got hum vees.. Gets these crappy western stars that failed most of the tests.
 
DT741 said:
Hahaha bandoleers !! Since this summer, all we've been issued for ammo was from 2004-2006 packed in bandoleers. 600 per box, 100 rounds bandoleers. Good times :p

I think the reason for the lack of AAR about kit&weapon is because most ignore the existence of the "unsatisfactory kit report". I'm 16 years in and learn about it maybe 3-4 years ago.

On the other end, we've been in a room with the "fine folks"of DLR... Being told that cadpat boots were the best boots ever designed and being told that our Lowas, Haix, Danners were substandard compared to the cadpat boots... Hell we have people within our own CoC stalling progress with their dinosaur mentality of "issued kit is good, issued kit only".

Sometimes its just simpler to wear what we want/need and deal with it if caught than going thru the process of asking or trying to ger things changed. Fortunatly, just like the real dinosaurs, the asteroid is slowly coming and phasing out mentalities ranging between mental retardation to personnal war on effeciency/confort.

Had to explain my work desktop background to my CSM, he laughed pretty hard and asked me which one he was in the picture :p
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Bahahahhahaa that's hilarious. Brilliant.

The UCR (Unsatisfactory CONDITION Report) is one thing, but not what I'm talking about here, nor the only - or even the best - mechanism for raising unsatisfactory issues. A unit AAR consists of points captured at the sub sub unit level. There were points from every platoon level org broken down by combat function. Now, I didn't see each and every platoon compile their AAR, but there were plenty of pte and cpl level points that told me what the platoons submitted wasn't filtered much, if at all. Indeed, I didn't filter anything - all I did was consolidate the points. Filtering would have defeated the purpose of the thing. I'll try and figure out which freaking thumb or hard drive it's on. I'm pretty / mostly sure I saved the raw returns as well as the consolidated one.

For bandoleers I mean of loaded mags, not clips. For the cost of mags in bulk it's frankly ridiculous we treat them as reusable. If you need ten mags then grabbing two bandoleers is about as fast and simple a solution as I can think of. On 3-06 they resorted to sending out milk crates full of loaded mags, PWT range style. It works, but surely a lot better to just have sealed .50 cans of mags that aren't exposed to dust and corruption the whole time.
 
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