Primer Choice

[Ganderite]

I smile when shooter post comments about primers all being the same - or that primer choice does not matter.

With an easy to ignite powder, like 4895, any primer will work well. Only a small powder adjustment is required when switching primers.

When you are dealing with a difficult to ignite situation, the primer choice makes a huge difference. In fact, some primers will give very poor results, life hang fires or misfires.

Difficult to ignite situations include:

- A slow powder with a heavy deterrent coating.

- A slow powder in a less than full case, makes it even more difficult.

- A slow powder in a less than full case, with a light bullet makes it even more difficult.

- A slow powder in a less than full case, with a light bullet and no crimp/little neck tension makes it even more difficult.

- Any of the above situations using a ball power. They are usually more difficult to ignite. So loading a 45 gr bullet in 223 with a partial case full of 748 can be a problem unless you give the bullet a good crimp and use a hot primer.

If you want to see the difference in primers, load them in pistol cases and fire them (just the primed case) out of a handgun in the dark. I have done this and taken pictures (no flash) to record the differences.

Some general observations. One company's "Standard" primer is about the same as another company's "Magnum" primer.

Some primers burn much hotter and longer than others.

 

[LittleBoyLefty]

Cool pictures. Thank you.

I've seen a primer change make a big difference in a load's ES/SD numbers. And appear to make little difference in a load.

Would you be willing to share differences in primer performance as far as you're aware? Who's primers burn hotter and longer?

 

[ShootMeStraight]

I've never had a handload not go *bang* but I have heard *click* a few times with factory 9mm.

 

[CoreyMac]

Just had 2 cci primers not fire for me at the range today out of 100 rounds. After hang fire procedure on both I ran them through again. Both went click again. I've never had issues with Winchester, just cci.

Corey

 

[ShootMeStraight]

Just had 2 cci primers not fire for me at the range today out of 100 rounds. After hang fire procedure on both I ran them through again. Both went click again. I've never had issues with Winchester, just cci.

Corey

The factory 9mm rounds that didn't go bang for me were Winchester. I've shot 1000's of S&B large/small pistol primers, not a single issue.

 

[Ganderite]

I buy primers 10,000 at a time. I have used Wolf, Tula, CCI, Federal, Norma, Winchester, RWS, Kynock, Vihtavouri, S&B, Fiocchi and Remington.

Vihtavouri were a magnitude hotter than anything else.

RWS was the mildest.

Fiocchi is the cheapest, followed by S & B.

I once had to switch from Federal match to Winchester Standard because of difficulty in finding 40,000 primers of the same lot#. We dropped the 4895 powder charge by 1/10 gn. to compensate for a 25 fps increase in velocity. ES and SD were about the same. 4895 is easy to ignite.

I am not going to start a pissing contest here about "best" primers.

If Winchester was not having a QC problem, their Standard primer would be a good all purpose primer. I suspect the Remington would be similar.

I have used a lot of the cheap primers (Russian) S&B and Fiocchi and found them 100% reliable.

I have a project coming up in the spring to load 4000 rounds of match 223 ammo. I will use the CCI magnum primer because I will use a ball powder. I have had issues making 223 with ball powder before that only a bullet crimp and magnum primer would solve.

I use a hand primer for most applications, and find that the CCI primers feed better than the cheap primers. That is the only real difference I have found between the cheap and expensive primers.

However: The Federal primers are special. They use a different, and more sensitive priming compound than the other brands. One of my pistols gets 50% misfires, or more, with all primers except Federal. Federal works 100%.

If you have a striker-fired pistol that gets the occasional misfire, Federal primers will solve the problem.

 

['Boo]

Would you be willing to share differences in primer performance as far as you're aware? Who's primers burn hotter and longer?

Borrowed from another site:

RIfle Primers
Brand/type_________Power Average___Range____Std. Dev
1... Fed Match GM215M___6.12______ 5.23-6.8_____.351
2... Federal 215 LRM _____5.69______ 5.2-6.5 _____.4437
3... CCI 250 LRM_________5.66______ 4.5-7.4_____ .4832
4... Winchester WLRM____ 5.45______ 5.1-6.0 _____.2046
5... Remington 9 1/2M LR _ 5.09 _____ 3.5-6.75 ____.6641
6... Winchester WLR _____ 4.8 ______ 4.1-6.0 _____.4300
7... Remington 9 1/2 LR __ 4.75 _____ 3.7-6.25 ____.5679
8... Fed Match GM210M __ 4.64 _____4.0-5.6 ____ .3296
9... Federal 210 LR ______ 4.62_____ 3.7-5.5 ____.3997
10.. CCI BR2 ____________4.37_____ 4.0-5.0 ____ .2460
11.. CCI 200 LR __________4.28 ____ 3.8-4.8 ____ .3218
12.. KVB 7 LR Russian_____ 4.27 ____3.8-4.8 ____ .2213
13.. Rem 91/2 (30 yrs old)_ 4.16 ____ 3.8-4.8 ____.3427

Pistol Primers
14 Rem LP ___________4.47_______ 3.2-5.6 _______.5171
15 KVB 45 LP Russian __3.89 _______3.3-4.2 _______ .2232
16 CCI 300 LP________ 3.18_______ 2.7-3.5 _______ .2406
17 Federal 150 LP _____3.11 _______2.6-3.5 _______.2090
18 Fed Match GM150M_ 3.05 _______ 2.6-3.7 ______ .2299

 

[CoreyMac]

The factory 9mm rounds that didn't go bang for me were Winchester. I've shot 1000's of S&B large/small pistol primers, not a single issue.

Interesting.

Corey

 

[Ridersfan]

If someone wants to dwell on primer vs primer... then they should also be dwelling on uniforming the flash holes & primer pockets. Annealing the brass necks. Use high end micrometer bullet seating dies that seat from the ogive not from OAL.
Those are all subtle little differences that each on their own can have just as much effect as different primers can.

I don't personally own any micrometer dies, I can't measure from the ogive, and I'm only just starting to think about annealing (and that's more because I want a longer brass lifespan)... so I'm not going to sweat it over primers that much

 

[Hitzy]

I use CCI mag primers for everything I load in rifles. Keeps it simple and they always go bang.

 

[just having some fun]

I have a project coming up in the spring to load 4000 rounds of match 223 ammo. I will use the CCI magnum primer because I will use a ball powder. I have had issues making 223 with ball powder before that only a bullet crimp and magnum primer would solve.

I use a hand primer for most applications, and find that the CCI primers feed better than the cheap primers..

Question
4000 rounds ... are you going to hand prime ?

4000 rounds are you going to reload brass more than once ?

What rifles are you going to be using ?

 

[Robert Nicholson]

I use CCI mag primers for everything I load in rifles. Keeps it simple and they always go bang.

This seems like a good idea to me, I don't try to test limits with my loads but I have had occasional misfires that I want to eliminate.
Anything wrong with going with overkill on the primer, in my circumstances?

 

[IvoB]

I just loaded some 223 using W748 and cci450's

 

[Ganderite]

Question
4000 rounds ... are you going to hand prime ?

4000 rounds are you going to reload brass more than once ?

What rifles are you going to be using ?

The 4000 cases will be hand primed. I bought 4000 cases from BlackSheep Brass. they are sized, trimmed etc. All I have to do is prime them. Will use CCI 450s.

The ORA will use the ammo in some Savage heavy barrel rifles.

 

[coleman1495]

What is the difference between the standard Federal primers and the “Match” Federal primers? Are match primers slightly hotter?

 

[yomomma]

What is the difference between the standard Federal primers and the “Match” Federal primers? Are match primers slightly hotter?

Tighter consistencies i would imagine

 

[JayCarver]

I use CCI mag primers for everything I load in rifles. Keeps it simple and they always go bang.

I actually load cci 450 in all my small primer rounds with great results. Have loaded close to 30k 9mm with 450s.

 

[RonR]

For trigger time and fire forming brass I load different combinations of powder and primer for rifle and shoot at 100m for 7-08 and 303br. Using the same charge of powder, cases and bullets, I change the primers.

From experience I certainly believe that there are primer/powder combinations that create better groups than others. Can't speak to ES and SD cause I haven't chronied any of these combinations.

F210's performed the best regardless of bullet weight and powder i.e. W760, IMR 4064, IMR 4166, Re 15, VV540 and Varget.

CCI large rifle and large rifle mag primers had little difference on W760 ball powder however were approaching F210 group results when used with IMR stick powders.

Remington 9.5 worked with Varget however were not remarkable with any other powder.


In the works is a light bullet plinking round and once charge has been settled I will be testing different primers to see cause and effects including the chrony.


FWIW

Regards
Ronr

 

[Hitzy]

What is the difference between the standard Federal primers and the “Match” Federal primers? Are match primers slightly hotter?

A CCI rep said their BR primers were the first 100,000 or something off the new dies, after that the dies wear slowly and start showing slight inconsistency. The dies are replaced every 1,000,000 primers IIRC.
Now this was on a message board, so it could have been some basement dweller BS'ing everyone....take it with a grain of salt.

 

[ipscgraz]

Back to the pics in the original post, I wonder if there are any noticeable difference between lot numbers, of the same brand.