Primer Choice

Very interesting thread! I have been reloading for many years, but haven't gone too close to "max" loads in any of my rifles or handguns. I used a pile of Federal primers in .38, 9mm, .45 and mostly Winchester and CCI in rifle.

I do have a Caldwell chronograph and have only used it to satisfy my curiosity. THANK YOU! to Ganderite for sharing his findings.
 
There is more to primers and ignition that just "Bang" or "Click".

If you get some misfires, you probably solve the problem with a hotter primer. Another trick is to use more crimp.

There is also the "click-bang". That falls between the Bang and the No-Bang load.

The first time I really noticed it was with a 8x57, light bullets and ball powder. All 20 rounds were click-bangs.

Logic says that there is an area between Bang and Click-Bang where all the rounds go bang and everything seems ok - except that the ignition is marginal. Not bad enough to see or feel, but marginal enough that it might show up as a poor group. And if you go hunting with this marginal ammo, the cold weather might cause a click bang or a misfire.

I try to load ammo that has enough lee-way that it will work in very hot weather (that is, not quite at max) and will work in cold weather (more than the bare minimum of ignition).

The loading manual will suggest when a magnum primer is called for. Lots of us have used standard primers and said "it works fine." The manual people know that sometimes it does not work and that is why they suggest a magnum primer.

I do more loading and shooting than most, and have, over the years, had some ignition problems. It was always a ball powder. So I understand why the manual often suggests a magnum primer with ball powder loads.

Winchester ammo used to be loaded with their powders, which were ball powders. So the Standard Winchester primer is quite hot and suitable for their ball powders. I used to use the Winchester standard primer as my general purpose primer, because it would always work.

Fast and medium speed powders (4198-4350) with almost full cases ignite easily and the standard primer is perfect. I use a standard primer for 75% of my loading.
 
Last edited:
For the record, CCI250's will not properly ignite H50BMG in an improved Cheytac case. I had horrible accuracy and probably 2/10 misfires and the odd hangfire (click........*cough*.... crickets.....BOOOOOOM) with those primers. I talked with other Cheytac shooters and the fix was simple, just use GM215M's. Sure enough accuracy greatly improved and I haven't had a single malfunction since. So ya, choosing the correct primer is important!
 
I've been having some failures with primers lately. I use cci primers, magnums for my semi auto stuff and the bench rest ones for bolt guns
I don't crimp my ammo so it's interesting to know that it can affect ignition
The click then nothing issues I think are from dud primers. I usually load in the middle between start and max
 
armorman said:
For the record, CCI250's will not properly ignite H50BMG in an improved Cheytac case. I had horrible accuracy and probably 2/10 misfires and the odd hangfire (click........*cough*.... crickets.....BOOOOOOM) with those primers. I talked with other Cheytac shooters and the fix was simple, just use GM215M's. Sure enough accuracy greatly improved and I haven't had a single malfunction since. So ya, choosing the correct primer is important!
Click to expand...

Did you EVER just try JUST the FED215 ? ? its a MAGNUM primer The 215M's are MAGNUM Match Grade primers . You prob know that ! RJ
 
armorman said:
For the record, CCI250's will not properly ignite H50BMG in an improved Cheytac case. I had horrible accuracy and probably 2/10 misfires and the odd hangfire (click........*cough*.... crickets.....BOOOOOOM) with those primers. I talked with other Cheytac shooters and the fix was simple, just use GM215M's. Sure enough accuracy greatly improved and I haven't had a single malfunction since. So ya, choosing the correct primer is important!
Click to expand...


I had about the same experience with a .338 Edge and 250 primers. In cold weather I could get half misfires; cold being -30-40. The primers would go off and cook the powder into a yellow mass. Warm weather they worked. There were shortages then and I was trying to preserve the stash of 215Ms. I went up to a 36 pound spring and still had problems. A simple switch to 215Ms cured it. Same with my early Kimber 22/250 with the old tiny striker spring. Intermittent winter misfires were cured by switching from CCI Match to 205 M

I've had more misfires with CCI primers than all the rest put together. Whenever there is a "explain my miss-fires thread" I check to see if there are CCI primers or a Savage rifle present. Its usually one or the other or both.cou:
 
Dogleg said:
I had about the same experience with a .338 Edge and 250 primers. In cold weather I could get half misfires; cold being -30-40. The primers would go off and cook the powder into a yellow mass. Warm weather they worked. There were shortages then and I was trying to preserve the stash of 215Ms. I went up to a 36 pound spring and still had problems. A simple switch to 215Ms cured it. Same with my early Kimber 22/250 with the old tiny striker spring. Intermittent winter misfires were cured by switching from CCI Match to 205 M

I've had more misfires with CCI primers than all the rest put together. Whenever there is a "explain my miss-fires thread" I check to see if there are CCI primers or a Savage rifle present. Its usually one or the other or both.cou:
Click to expand...

There were reports of rifles going kaboom in the old days attributed to single base powders turning into a mass in extreme cold.
 
Deathrawt said:
I've been having some failures with primers lately. I use cci primers, magnums for my semi auto stuff and the bench rest ones for bolt guns
I don't crimp my ammo so it's interesting to know that it can affect ignition
The click then nothing issues I think are from dud primers. I usually load in the middle between start and max
Click to expand...

There is another cause of misfires and click-bangs. Insufficient velocity of the firing pin/hammer.

This happens a lot with striker fired pistols. The solution is a new striker spring. A quick $10 fix. And/or switch to Federal primers.

It can happen in many guns in cold weather if there is any oil or grease in the firing pin channel. Wash it out with brake cleaner.

And here is one I learned in the last few years. Imagine this:

Full length sized brasss. It is now slightly loose in the chamber.

Bullet seated long, so it engages the rifling.

The cartridge will now sit with the case head on the bolt face and the rifling holding the bullet at the other end. This will keep the case shoulder or rim off the chamber.

When the firing pin hits the primer, the entire case will push forward, pushing the bullet further into the rifling, cushioning the blow.

So, if you get the occasional misfire and you seat the bullets into the rifling, this might be the cause. Solution - Federal primers.
 
People tend to get all weird when you suggest a new striker spring. Never mind that a new extra strength replacement spring will have double the whack of a tired factory spring. Never mind that it only costs about the same as a couple packs of primers. They just don't want to believe it. Same with changing primers to Federal.

Whats odd is handgunners know all about it, its rifle shooters that balk. I think its because handgunners shoot volume.
 
I agree. If a problem happens one in 100, it would be a long time between incidents for many rifle shooters. But for a handgunner, it could be twice or 3 times in one day.

My Canik was misfiring about 1 in 50 and it was costing me IPSC points. I switched to Federal, for the short term fix, and intend to change the striker spring.

A striker pistol should get a new spring every 5,000 rounds, anyway.

I have a handful of Wolfe Blitz rifle springs from back in the day. We switched from factory to 28 pound springs as a standard tune up.
 
Varmit said:
Thanks for posting this Ganderite, you've cleared up a lot of the mysteries of primers I often wondered about.
Click to expand...

I second that...
Way to put in the work,, very interesting, post.


I reload for the 22 k Hornets, and have noticed variables change when I use small pistol primers instead of small rifle primers. Powder is compressed enough to ignite reliably using a fast burning powder, small pistol primers where a good choice.
The pressure was reduced when the small pistol primer was used, standard deviation also reduced almost in half. Accuracy also increased....
Velocity also dropped a little ..

Sir, thank you for opening pandora ' s box ... Enjoy G NUTZ
 
Ganderite said:
I buy primers 10,000 at a time. I have used Wolf, Tula, CCI, Federal, Norma, Winchester, RWS, Kynock, Vihtavouri, S&B, Fiocchi and Remington.

Vihtavouri were a magnitude hotter than anything else.

RWS was the mildest.

Fiocchi is the cheapest, followed by S & B.

I once had to switch from Federal match to Winchester Standard because of difficulty in finding 40,000 primers of the same lot#. We dropped the 4895 powder charge by 1/10 gn. to compensate for a 25 fps increase in velocity. ES and SD were about the same. 4895 is easy to ignite.

I am not going to start a pissing contest here about "best" primers.

If Winchester was not having a QC problem, their Standard primer would be a good all purpose primer. I suspect the Remington would be similar.

I have used a lot of the cheap primers (Russian) S&B and Fiocchi and found them 100% reliable.

I have a project coming up in the spring to load 4000 rounds of match 223 ammo. I will use the CCI magnum primer because I will use a ball powder. I have had issues making 223 with ball powder before that only a bullet crimp and magnum primer would solve.

I use a hand primer for most applications, and find that the CCI primers feed better than the cheap primers. That is the only real difference I have found between the cheap and expensive primers.

However: The Federal primers are special. They use a different, and more sensitive priming compound than the other brands. One of my pistols gets 50% misfires, or more, with all primers except Federal. Federal works 100%.

If you have a striker-fired pistol that gets the occasional misfire, Federal primers will solve the problem.
Click to expand...

Where do you buy your primers by the 10,000?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom