I like 14" barrels, since the shotgun is still compact. If you buy a remington 870 you can also get an 18" barrel as an option. One point that has been mentioned is that it is difficult to get 14" barrels for the remington with interchangeable chokes, also for the same for 18" barrels, however it is possible to buy 18" barrels for the 870 with interchangeable chokes, since these are made by Carlson's "http://www.alscornerstore.ca/online_sales/viewProduct.aro?prodid=383". It is also possible to now buy remington 870's with detachable mags i.e the remington 870 dm. In Canada you can buy the "Little Beaver two" which is an 870 dm with a 14" remington barrel, wilson combat safety and a Mesa tactical urbino stock. This shotgun has a 33" overall length.
Short barrel shot gun advice
- Thread starter Jmcc
- Start date
IMHO its a mistake to choose a pump shotgun with a barrel short enough that the support hand can reach beyond the muzzle. If you are using the gun in wet cold conditions, and find yourself in a stressful defensive shooting situation, its not inconceivable that your hand could slip off the slide and in front of the muzzle just as the gun fires. Apparently I'm not the only one to identify this problem as several manufacturers now provide devices to restrain the hand; either a short loop sling attached to the forend or a protrusion which acts as a hand stop at the font of the forend. If you insist on such a short gun, I would advise you install such a device, and if the gun has one, not to disable it.
Another problem with very short shotguns is a diminished magazine capacity. I don't think I would choose a barrel length which reduced the magazine capacity to less than 5 rounds. Having carried shotguns in the defensive roll for many years, I am of the opinion that a magazine capacity with more than 5 rounds is only a small advantage compared to the extra bulk and weight added to the gun, but a magazine capacity of less than 5 rounds can be a problem, at least physiologically.
A shotgun with a vertical magazine negates this concern, but the vertical magazine creates other problems. One problem is the ease by which the gun is carried at the balance. Another problem is the ability to conveniently exchange the type of shell in the magazine and in the chamber with another. You might for example carry the gun with a magazine full of slugs, but wish to fire a less lethal round or a load of birdshot, but unless its the subsequent round in the vertical magazine is of that type, it would be clumsy to drop the intended round through the ejection port, partially remove the magazine, close the action, seat the magazine, then aim and fire. With a tube magazine, the action can be opened enough that you can drop the intended shell into the ejection port without releasing the subsequent round in the magazine, then just close the action and fire. With little practice this can be accomplished without ever taking the butt out of your shoulder. An alternative method is to load the magazine one round short of capacity, then the selected round can simply be pushed into the magazine and the action cycled, ejecting the slug, and chambering the intended round.
Another consideration is the weight of the gun and it's balance. Weight dampens recoil, and balance allows the gun to carried easily and brought into action quickly. A 12 ga gun with a 12" barrel and two round magazine would be a handful to control in a dangerous situation when loaded with slugs or 3" buckshot, and is not as nicely balanced as a gun with 4 to 8 inches of additional barrel length. A basic pump shotgun (500, 590, or 870) with a 16", 18" or 20" barrel is a better bet. Install a butt with an adjustable length of pull, like Magpul's SGA, or modify the factory stock to fit, and install an XS big dot bead or rifle sights, and an inch and a quarter wide sling. A side saddle is a nice touch, and provides more, or different rounds than are carried in the magazine.
A 20" shotgun is a convenient length . . .
SGA stock is easily adjusted for LOP . . .
Your comments on being one short in the load are really good! I had been concidering alternate shells. Slug-buck-sulg-buck and just kick out what I didn’t want but in high stress I’m not confident I could do it properly. And drpping good ammo on the ground bothers me.
The sling to keep my hand from slipping is a good (and cheap) idea.
Like I said earlier, I am in black bear county. They are all over our trail cams but they aren’t as aggressive as grizzly so I think this will be 70% hunting and 30% protection. Finding that balance is tricky.
I’ve already got 2 other shotguns. 12 ga bolt for turkey 20 ga single for grouse.
This would be my “everything ok, but nothing great” gun.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
I’d honestly buy a lightly used 870 with a 18”-20” barrel with rifle sights for a do it all 12g and then keep your eyes open for a 12.5” or 14” barrel, I can’t find a single negative to say about my 20” barrel with fiber optic rifle sights that takes chokes. It’s really a do it all shotgun for me, I shot a ton of grouse with it this last season and it’s easy to carry when hiking and fits on the quad easily.
I’d honestly buy a lightly used 870 with a 18”-20” barrel with rifle sights for a do it all 12g and then keep your eyes open for a 12.5” or 14” barrel, I can’t find a single negative to say about my 20” barrel with fiber optic rifle sights that takes chokes. It’s really a do it all shotgun for me, I shot a ton of grouse with it this last season and it’s easy to carry when hiking and fits on the quad easily.
Your set up is basically what I’m looking to replicate. How do you find the 20 inch for mobility? If an 18 was the same $ would you have gone that way? What do you do for chokes?
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
If you don’t need a 14” or less shorty the 18”-20” is the way to go, I don’t find a 20” barrel long at all. It’s the perfect length for getting in and out of a truck, hiking thick or open bush and is short enough not to overhang the side of the quad. It’s my favourite length of barrel, I have a 28” ribbed barrel and I never use it. I don’t hunt waterfowl so it’s just a bit long for the truck or hiking around the bush where I am. The 18”-20” barrels will have a longer sight radius than the 12.5” or 14”, I prefer rifle sights over ghost rings and the fiber optic rifle sight are a joy to use.
I patterned it at various distances with birdshot, buckshot and sighted it in for slugs with IC, mod and full chokes. Mod gave me great birdshot and buckshot patterns and shot slugs bread on my point of aim out to 50-60y, mod always seems to be the best all around choke for me. I have 12.5”, 14”, 20” and 28” barrels on a couple different shotguns, mostly 870’s or clones of 870’s and the shotguns I take out more than not are the 20” ones. The 870 I posted pics of goes out the most, I have dropped grouse as far out as 40-45y with it as you see it. With the +2 extension it can hold 6+1 shells but I plug it during the hunting season to 2+1 to be legal while shooting shot in BC.
If I had to choose between the 18” or the 20”, I would take either. 2” less wouldn’t make any difference to me if I had to choose.
tactical lever
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Fox Creek, Alberta
No real "ideal bbl. length". The choke and action contribute more to the way the gun handles, and shoots, unless you are shooting clays. I'm tempted to pick up one of the Hatsan pumps. They have a pretty decent reputation. I'd go for a 12" pump gun.
But for overall length a break open is much more compact. My sxs with 20" barrels is probably as short as the pump I had with a 14" barrel. Handy switching out ammo, and the hammers inspire more confidence when I'm carrying it around.
But for overall length a break open is much more compact. My sxs with 20" barrels is probably as short as the pump I had with a 14" barrel. Handy switching out ammo, and the hammers inspire more confidence when I'm carrying it around.
- Location
- Brant County, Ontario
870 Wingmaster with either a 18.5" or 20" with adjustable chokes and rifle sights.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
A few things come to mind from your response. The first is bear behavior. Predacious black bears are rare, but occur frequently enough that the possibility of encountering one cannot be dismissed out of hand. A black bear is unlikely to attack, but if it does it will feed.
There is nothing tricky about balancing a defensive gun with a hunting gun. Simply choose a good reliable defensive gun and hunt with it.
A magazine fed shotgun is best carried with slugs in the magazine, anything else you need to load can be single loaded into the gun. Staging different loads in the magazine is generally a bad idea, since it requires a real life scenario to play out in exactly the order you expect it to. If it does not, you have the wrong load in the gun. This can result in a bear being accidentally killed when you intended to scare it away, or worse, a scare cartridge is in the gun when you need to kill the bear to save yourself or another.
The usefulness of buckshot fills a very specific niche, and should be avoided whenever slug loads are appropriate. Buckshot is most appropriate in situations where over penetration endangers others, such as a bear emergency in a town or crowded campground. Buckshot might also pass through, and although the velocity of the 50 gr pellet will be greatly reduced, you would be liable for every pellet exiting your muzzle. Given that the size of the pattern generally increases an inch in diameter for each yard of range, you don't have to be very far from the bear before there are pellets that won't hit it, and can result in injuries downrange.
Too often people choose inexpensive guns for bear defense, then treat the guns like clubs because they are cheap. If a gun is going to be a viable life saving tool, it must be maintained and in good repair. The ammunition should be clean and free of corrosion. Shotgun ammo tarnishes and corrodes much more quickly than rifle cartridges. I make a habit of swapping out shotgun ammo after 30 days in the field, even though the gun is unloaded, the ammo wiped off, then reloaded daily. In cold weather, temperature cycling adds to the problem.
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