That is what I found with the factory ported Browning shotguns that I owned. I don't own any ported shotguns now, and I don't miss them.
Cleaning Porting?
- Thread starter Maritime Storm
- Start date
That is what I found with the factory ported Browning shotguns that I owned. I don't own any ported shotguns now, and I don't miss them.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I got interested in barrel porting a number of years ago when it was all the rage and as is the case with a lot of things I get interested in, I did a lot of research on the topic at the time and formed some opinions. I can also appreciate that not every one agrees with them and I'm ok with that even though most people who disagree have not done as much research on the topic as I did.
I started by watching other shooters firing their guns very closely and found that most modern o/u guns had very little to almost no visible muzzle rise when the bottom barrel was fired. The top barrel often has some discernible muzzle rise but if that is normally your second shot fired then there are no consequences on the ability to engage the next target. Some of the older guns I watched being fired did have some observable muzzle rise and one model that come to mind is the old Browning hump back auto's, I watched some of them really jump! I believe that the main factor is the depth of the receiver. On guns that are very shallow in the receiver and place the bottom barrel as low to the shooter's shoulder as possible such as the Beretta 680 series guns show very little muzzle rise as opposed to sxs's and some auto's where the barrels sit quite high in relation to the shoulder. Citori barrels sit a bit higher than most o/u guns and with heavier loads I can see slight muzzle rise from the bottom barrel, perhaps this is why Browning is the only manufacturer that I know of to still port their target guns. My next step in my research was to port a 686 sporting that I was shooting at the time. I had a shooting buddy that had the same gun and we shot those guns side by side extensively and could not discern any difference in muzzle rise or lack of between the ported gun and the un-ported one.
I also did a lot of reading on the subject and one article written by a gunsmith who's name I no longer recall listed the four commonly done modifications to shotguns at the time in order from the most effective for patterns and recoil to the least effective. Number one in his opinion was lengthening the forcing cones, number two was lengthening the choke tubes, number three was overboring/backboring the barrels and number four was barrel porting and he went on the explain why. He compared porting a shotgun to porting a rifle which as I'm sure you know can benefit nicely from porting, on the rifle you could be working with 60,000 psi as opposed to 12,000 psi with a shotgun, simply put one fifth of the pressure means one fifth of the effectiveness. With the rifle, you have a much thicker barrel for the gases to push (for lack of a better word) against to reduce recoil and in the case of a brake, even more surface to push against compared to the thin barrel of a shotgun. Again, less surface to push against means less effectiveness so the conclusion is that shotgun porting does nothing to mitigate recoil and very little to mitigate muzzle rise.
Of course there is a lot more factors as has been already mentioned such as heavy loads vs light ones. North American shooters seem to think that clay targets are like much of the big game that they hunt in that you need the biggest and fastest ammo in order to kill/break the target and subject themselves to a beating every time they shoot when in fact much of this is over kill. The majority of clay targets can be broken very readily with soft shooting 1150 fps 1 oz loads with no drama whatsoever.
I don't mean to write a book on the subject but I'm a slow typer and I'm juggling some work here at the moment as well. Agree or disagree, it doesn't matter to me as I'm not trying to convert anyone to my way of thinking, as I said these are just my opinions.
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A long time ago when we could shoot the speed events at Steel Challenge with our own shotguns, I ported my 1100 on a cheap drill press. I had lots of holes and they were probably larger than what you see now. It worked amazing.
We were shooting 5 targets in about a second so muzzle lift was a factor. However, in the clay sports, you never have to shoot at that speed. Most times we have seconds between shots and your fastest splits are still over a half second.
So why would I care about muzzle lift if I don't need it for the second shot? It's because recoil begins on ignition and your barrel moves before the shot leaves the barrel. A firm hold can help that but if you get sloppy, you can easily shoot over a target.
Porting doesn't work like a comp because it doesn't have the front of the chambers for the gasses to slam against, but they definitely do have some effect.
Last year I had my Perazzi ported and was really disappointed as I found no difference. Maybe I should have put it on a drill press myself!
At the end of the day, not everybody's porting works. You need lots of holes and probably bigger than what they recommend. Also, if a gun is loud, the ports are working!
jmho
We were shooting 5 targets in about a second so muzzle lift was a factor. However, in the clay sports, you never have to shoot at that speed. Most times we have seconds between shots and your fastest splits are still over a half second.
So why would I care about muzzle lift if I don't need it for the second shot? It's because recoil begins on ignition and your barrel moves before the shot leaves the barrel. A firm hold can help that but if you get sloppy, you can easily shoot over a target.
Porting doesn't work like a comp because it doesn't have the front of the chambers for the gasses to slam against, but they definitely do have some effect.
Last year I had my Perazzi ported and was really disappointed as I found no difference. Maybe I should have put it on a drill press myself!
At the end of the day, not everybody's porting works. You need lots of holes and probably bigger than what they recommend. Also, if a gun is loud, the ports are working!
jmho
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Your experience with the 1100 pretty much affirms what I talked about, the higher the barrel sits in the receiver and in relation to your shoulder, the more muzzle jump will be present. And your experience with the Perazzi also affirms what I say about well designed guns but I doubt that your drill press job would have done anything more for the gun... or the resale value of it!
Your also correct in saying that recoil begins at ignition, before the shot leaves the barrel. It's the same with rifles and handguns, that's why shooters sight in their guns, to take into account some movement for recoil and that's also why a repeatable hold on the firearm is paramount to accuracy. A shotgun is no different.
I do take exception to the statement that loud porting means that it is working though, it only means that gas is being vented in a manner that increases the noise level., whether it's working or not is not determined by noise level.
Has nothing to do with that IMO is it all about pitch. Read this. Not my words
Barrels rise during recoil because the bore is above the stock's point of contact on the shoulder This occurs because the stock has to be crooked, i.e. it slants downward from its attachment at the action or receiver.
Pitch is the angle of the recoil pad or butt compared to the barrel or bore of the It is computed by setting the gun on its recoil pad or butt with the top of the receiver or action touching a vertical surface.
Pitch in inches is measured at a point 28" from the chamber (for comparison purposes) to the vertical surface. In Europe, it is more often measured in degrees, often close to 95 degrees.
(The pitch is correct when the entire butt, top to bottom, makes simultaneous contact with the shoulder during gun mounts.)
During the second phase of recoil, the gun moves backward as far as it is allowed to travel when it is stopped by the shoulder. At that point, the remaining energy of the ejecta must be utilized somehow and that somehow results in barrel rise.
Pitch gets involved in cheek slap when, instead of the majority of the rearward gun movement being exerted on the top or heel of the butt, it is concentrated on the bottom toe, approximately four inches farther below the barrel. This results in a considerable increase in barrel rise.
Something else that can create a sore cheek is a stock with too much pitch, especially when accompanied by slippery layers of clothing. These can allow the butt to slide up on the shoulder during recoil. Like all blows to the cheek, a sloppy gun mount (loose or mounted in the wrong place) often accompanies the other causes.
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Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Re read my posts and you'll see that's what I just said about the barrel being high in the receiver and above the shoulder line. Situate the barrel lower in the receiver such as in an over and under and the line of recoil is in line with the shoulder which (if low enough) eliminates the muzzle jump.
I agree with you 100% but it has nothing to do with if a firearm is well designed or not is my point
Not one pair of under ware fits all correctly and gun designs / stocks are the same
All I have been saying is get the pitch or fit right first for the individual and gun being used then see what your muzzle lift is like and if additional porting may help. For me it did on a 870 tc trap and a super x1 but both were properly fitted to me first and one needed pretty much a fully adjustable stock
Cheers
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Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
I'm not arguing about pitch or fit or under wear in fact I completely agree with you on that however, it's not the only factor resulting in muzzle rise or lack of.
An example of what I mean by being well designed would be what Beretta has done with their semi auto's. Starting with the 300 series guns and carried into the 400 series guns, you'll notice how there is a pronounced belly in front of the trigger guard, that didn't happen by accident and was meant to lower the barrel in relation to the shoulder. A semi's auto's barrel is a bit like the top barrel on an o/u and the magazine is where the bottom barrel would sit. By lowering the magazine resulting in the belly, they have lowered the barrel closer to the shoulder to reduce muzzle jump. Winchester did the same with the SX series guns and so have other manufacturers. This is what I mean by good design compared to bad designs such as the old Browning humpbacks with the barrel sitting very high in relation to the shoulder.
An example of what I mean by being well designed would be what Beretta has done with their semi auto's. Starting with the 300 series guns and carried into the 400 series guns, you'll notice how there is a pronounced belly in front of the trigger guard, that didn't happen by accident and was meant to lower the barrel in relation to the shoulder. A semi's auto's barrel is a bit like the top barrel on an o/u and the magazine is where the bottom barrel would sit. By lowering the magazine resulting in the belly, they have lowered the barrel closer to the shoulder to reduce muzzle jump. Winchester did the same with the SX series guns and so have other manufacturers. This is what I mean by good design compared to bad designs such as the old Browning humpbacks with the barrel sitting very high in relation to the shoulder.
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Thank you, we do aim to please! 
Frankly I'm surprised that I haven't been flamed by some one for calling the humpbacks a bad design..... there's still time for that though.
Frankly I'm surprised that I haven't been flamed by some one for calling the humpbacks a bad design..... there's still time for that though.
It is just nice to hear some intelligent information being given on shotguns, as there is so many old myths and misinformation out there. Shotguns and shooting them was my main passion for years. Mainly shooting clay targets and ducks. After a while I got interested in the finer points of the shotgun. I embraced choke tubes, lengthened forcing cones, over bored barrels, and stock fit, long before it was fashionable, and finding gunsmiths to do the work properly was difficult without going stateside. I have only one gun that is ported and that's a Classic Doubles skeet version. I never really noticed any appreciable difference in muzzle control between it and my standard Win 101 fixed choke skeet. Looks cool though. I never say much on here about what I did or did not do when it comes to shotguns because I certainly do not profess to know it all and when I did say things I got flamed by those who do profess to know everything. I always respected 3macs1 opinions on shotguns etc as it did not take me long to determine he was genuinely knowledgeable and not full of it and willing listen to others. Plus he obviously new more than I on the finer technical points, an example being Win Super M-1's.
And to the OP, my secret to cleaning porting is with an old tooth brush. Sorry it is not very complicated or technical.
Thanks again gentlemen for your commentary and aiming to please.
And to the OP, my secret to cleaning porting is with an old tooth brush. Sorry it is not very complicated or technical.
Thanks again gentlemen for your commentary and aiming to please.
Two of my guns do not have porting. The last one I got did come with porting. I did not buy the gun for the porting but for fit and my average has gone up 12% per shoot, which I believe is due to fit not porting.
As for port cleaning. As I clean the gun after every shoot (as I have time on my hands) I always look at the ports, I saw some buildup in them so I started cutting off the end of a Q-tip and pushing this thru before I started the cleaning process. It takes no more than a minute to do....so I do it.....is it a waste of time....probability.... but if I stop doing it what am I going to do with that minute saved? House work!!!!!!!
As for port cleaning. As I clean the gun after every shoot (as I have time on my hands) I always look at the ports, I saw some buildup in them so I started cutting off the end of a Q-tip and pushing this thru before I started the cleaning process. It takes no more than a minute to do....so I do it.....is it a waste of time....probability.... but if I stop doing it what am I going to do with that minute saved? House work!!!!!!!
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Shoot it with cleaned ports and then shoot it till you feel there is a difference how it reacts to having had 10 flats of trap loads through it and then give us the range report.
Its your gun and time invested in cleaning your firearm.
I dont shoot ported guns ...well I dont own any (ported guns) as of now, but I prolly would run a brush through the ports and oil them with some G96 and call it good myself.
But, again I do not compete in the clay sports nor do I own a ported gun.
Rob
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Maritime Storm
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Riverview, NB
In the end, I simply don't bother doing anything other than cleaning the barrels then wipe down the porting with a rag that has a little solvent on it, then wipe the barrels down with and oil rag before reassembly. No overthinking was needed.
I have always seen the same. The odd time I may have to give a quick rub with a brass or fiber brush but that would be when I was also using cheap wads
Those would build up I found
Cheers
- Location
- campbell river bc
A little story about shotgun porting. A (now deceased) Vancouver Island trap shooter decided after much discussion and a lot of alcohol that he should port the barrel on his Remington 1100 12 gauge shotgun that he used for trap and I guess everything else he wanted to shoot. So, he took a 1/4 inch electric drill, not sure of the drill bit size, and laying the barrel on the tail gate of his pickup truck drilled many holes, not measured or spaced in any pattern but mostly in random manor and thus, a home made porting job.
When asked about the burrs left inside the barrel from the rough drilling job, he said they didn't need to be manually cleaned out , that they would shoot out in the next few boxes of trap loads. I never asked him if it made any difference to his shooting but he did shoot that gun so much that the rails inside the action where the bolt and other pieces slide back and forth ended up worn to razor blade thickness. Sure didn't seem to affect his scores though. Just a thought about porting. Hope you enjoy the story.
When asked about the burrs left inside the barrel from the rough drilling job, he said they didn't need to be manually cleaned out , that they would shoot out in the next few boxes of trap loads. I never asked him if it made any difference to his shooting but he did shoot that gun so much that the rails inside the action where the bolt and other pieces slide back and forth ended up worn to razor blade thickness. Sure didn't seem to affect his scores though. Just a thought about porting. Hope you enjoy the story.
Well I guess the good news is here is that he screwed a barrel on just a 1100 which is not hard or expensive to replace
Cheers
Falconflyer
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
There used to be a guy in Alberta who called himself a gunsmith that ported barrels. It seemed to me that his procedure was to pour a stiff drink, sit down with the barrels over his knees and drill holes with his hand drill!
