Sako 85 vs Sauer 101

Ha, thank you, finally some love for the Sauer. What are you running in the 101? How’s the ‘Dura Safe’ in field use?

I run 30 06 in my 101. As far as the safety, initially it felt a little awkward as my thumb landed obscured with my scope's ocular but after using the safety a few times it became fairly intuitive and I have no problem engaging with a gloved hand. The safety is fine but what really shines is the overall light rifle ergonomics, rock solid yet buttery smooth bolt, crisp 2 lb trigger and the wicked out of the box accuracy even with over the counter ammo. The following pics are from when I first got the rife and just sighted in the scope. At the time I grabbed the cheapest federal ammo on the shelf and put two groups of 3 shots in 1 inch groups at 100 yards right off the bat. Nonetheless in real life hunting scenarios its a joy to carry and it has killed alot of game with exceptional accuracy.

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and a now totally gratuitous picture of my 202 in 300 wby :)

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I also like the idea of a Mauser, as I prefer the 3 position safety. But I also read about them being a pain to change the barrels eventually. Is this true, and can it be done? How costly? I would put 10K rounds through it, as this would be my main med calibre rifle, and I would be shooting a lot of rounds as I believe in practicing, so I would reach the 10k.

Here is my take on things: If you can afford the $10-15 thousand dollars in ammo to reach the point where the rifle's chamber erodes and has an effect on its accuracy the trouble or cost of re-barreling should be the least of your worries. If you are seriously going put that many rounds down a centerfire rifle you should really consider reloading as you will extend your barrels life with downloading it with anything less than full power loads and you can also start seating your bullets out further to accommodate a receding chamber.
 
I'm shooting a Sako 85 Bavarian in 338wm no ejection issues. My dad's shooting an 85 hunter in 270wsm and there too no issues with shooting fast in hunting situations or slow on the bench. We both have relatively large scopes with 50 and 52mm objectives so the scopes are mounted a little high. If you're planning on using a smaller scope mounted tighter to the action then maybe there's a possibility of an ejection issue.

Both are tack drivers and smooth as can be. I used to think they were overpriced and no better than other cheaper rifles but now I've changed my tune, they are sweet rifles.
 
Here is my take on things: If you can afford the $10-15 thousand dollars in ammo to reach the point where the rifle's chamber erodes and has an effect on its accuracy the trouble or cost of re-barreling should be the least of your worries. If you are seriously going put that many rounds down a centerfire rifle you should really consider reloading as you will extend your barrels life with downloading it with anything less than full power loads and you can also start seating your bullets out further to accommodate a receding chamber.

Well said!
 
I run 30 06 in my 101. As far as the safety, initially it felt a little awkward as my thumb landed obscured with my scope's ocular but after using the safety a few times it became fairly intuitive and I have no problem engaging with a gloved hand. The safety is fine but what really shines is the overall light rifle ergonomics, rock solid yet buttery smooth bolt, crisp 2 lb trigger and the wicked out of the box accuracy even with over the counter ammo. The following pics are from when I first got the rife and just sighted in the scope. At the time I grabbed the cheapest federal ammo on the shelf and put two groups of 3 shots in 1 inch groups at 100 yards right off the bat. Nonetheless in real life hunting scenarios its a joy to carry and it has killed alot of game with exceptional accuracy.

**Image and video linking functions will be enabled after you have contributed more to the forum**

**Image and video linking functions will be enabled after you have contributed more to the forum**

and a now totally gratuitous picture of my 202 in 300 wby :)

**Image and video linking functions will be enabled after you have contributed more to the forum**

Gtreat pics! This is what I hoped I would see in this thread, thank you

Are those low leupold bases with an extension?
 
Hello,

Welcome from another Newbie. So the ejection issues people are referring to is in the longer actions from the reports I have read. Sako 85’s also feature a 3 position safety. Mauser and Sauer models are both made by Blaser and they do not have interchangeable barrels in their entry to mid level rifles (Mauser m18, m12) it’s reflected in their price. They have switch barrels in (Mauser m03, m98) but you’ve hit the 4K+ price point.
These are not bench/ match rifles and you could probably afford a cheaper rifle to expel rounds down range to practice with, if you can afford 10000+ rounds or the cost of rebarreling. That’s my plan, reserve the main one for hunting instead of barrel burning. Not to say you can’t enjoy it at the range.
I’m specifically looking for a European rifle, if that’s not your concern there are a substantial amount of quality/ sporting rifle made stateside. Check out a Remington 700, Winchester M70, Savage M11 especially if you want threaded barrels and hold value just as much as any rifle that’s taken care of. Happy hunting

Thanks for all the info! Much appreciated. I'm still doing my research and this is helpful.

Cost is of medium concern. I don't mind spending the money to shoot, or rebarrel. I will get into reloading for the multiple benefits. I also don't mind spending a more upfront if it gets me a nicer firearm (lock, stock and barrel). Especially if that also lowers the cost of a rebarrel later. Ie: a heat fitted vs threaded. Although I don't know how much more it costs for a heat fitted, so perhaps not as much savings as I realize. And perhaps the stock and action are of similar quality. I need to do more research.

I'm not fixed on a European rifle, as much as I'm fixed on quality design, build, and materials. I'd rather spend the money upfront, and get something nice the first time.

As an example, I could use binoculars and rangefinder. I have cheap bino's already. I want to step up to something better. I'll probably go straight to a Leica right off the bat. Thinking an older geovid. For $1800 or so NOS, I get a nice all around rangefinder and binocular combo. It's great glass and rangefinder in one, for an affordable price. Done, I'll go straight to that. Playing around the the cheaper stuff just costs more in the end, if you're going to eventually upgrade anyways.

So that's sort of what I'm looking for in a rifle. Something along those lines. If you have any suggestions, please feel free. I'm also sorry for hijacking your thread. We were looking at the same sort of rifles, so I thought I'd chime in.

I'll do more reading and thanks again for the help.

Here is my take on things: If you can afford the $10-15 thousand dollars in ammo to reach the point where the rifle's chamber erodes and has an effect on its accuracy the trouble or cost of re-barreling should be the least of your worries. If you are seriously going put that many rounds down a centerfire rifle you should really consider reloading as you will extend your barrels life with downloading it with anything less than full power loads and you can also start seating your bullets out further to accommodate a receding chamber.

Thanks. I will get into reloading. It only makes sense. Cheaper, tailored loads, lighter loads for practice etc.

I'm not really worried about the costs of rebarreling. But as I shared above, if I can spend a little more upfront to get a nicer gun, which also makes it cheaper to rebarrel later, then I'd probably do it. I'd rather buy smart the first time, as with my binocular example. Which is why I'm here researching. Still trying to learn the costs and sweet spots. I really appreciate the help here. Thanks again.
 
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I'm also a new member and am in a similar position to the poster.

A new Sako and Mauser with the first two guns to come to mind. I subscribe to the idea that "The pain of buying quality only costs you once". Rather than wasting ones money on something which wont hold value and will annoy you. Figured these two were a good starting point.

Although I'm concerned about the ejection issues I hear about with the long action Sako's. Apparently the short actions (up until mid size) don't have the issue? It's only with a long action and bigger. Can anyone confirm? Or does it also depend on the scope with the smaller actions?

I also like the idea of a Mauser, as I prefer the 3 position safety. But I also read about them being a pain to change the barrels eventually. Is this true, and can it be done? How costly? I would put 10K rounds through it, as this would be my main med calibre rifle, and I would be shooting a lot of rounds as I believe in practicing, so I would reach the 10k.

Or am I (and the original poster) better off buying something else? Any recommendations for another quality sporting/hunting rifle? Something with a smooth action and control feed? Ideally a 3 position safety (my preference anyways). I notice Cooper also mentioned in this thread....
First, you have to decide if you want a rifle for hunting or target shooting. Since you are planning to reach 10,000 rounds, which is a LOT for a bolt action rifle, I’m going to assume that you are buying it primarily for target shooting. If that’s the case, a hunting rifle like Sako 85 or Mauser would be a very poor choice.

If you are new to rifles, you may not appreciate the fact that a sporter profile barrel that you’d find of a typical hunting rifle can be shot about 3-5 times before having to let the barrel cool off. Otherwise, your groups will start opening up in a very noticeable way. Also, hunting rifles have to be light so that you could carry them in the field conformably for hours. Shooting a lightweight hunting rifle, especially from a prone or sitting position, can get unpleasant pretty fast unless you are shooting something with no recoil like a .223. That’s why target shooting/tactical rifles come with heavy barrels and are in general much heavier that hunting rifles.

You need to pick the right tool for the right job.
 
Thanks for all the info! Much appreciated. I'm still doing my research and this is helpful.

Cost is of medium concern. I don't mind spending the money to shoot, or rebarrel. I will get into reloading for the multiple benefits. I also don't mind spending a more upfront if it gets me a nicer firearm (lock, stock and barrel). Especially if that also lowers the cost of a rebarrel later. Ie: a heat fitted vs threaded. Although I don't know how much more it costs for a heat fitted, so perhaps not as much savings as I realize. And perhaps the stock and action are of similar quality. I need to do more research.

I'm not fixed on a European rifle, as much as I'm fixed on quality design, build, and materials. I'd rather spend the money upfront, and get something nice the first time.

As an example, I could use binoculars and rangefinder. I have cheap bino's already. I want to step up to something better. I'll probably go straight to a Leica right off the bat. Thinking an older geovid. For $1800 or so NOS, I get a nice all around rangefinder and binocular combo. It's great glass and rangefinder in one, for an affordable price. Done, I'll go straight to that. Playing around the the cheaper stuff just costs more in the end, if you're going to eventually upgrade anyways.

So that's sort of what I'm looking for in a rifle. Something along those lines. If you have any suggestions, please feel free. I'm also sorry for hijacking your thread. We were looking at the same sort of rifles, so I thought I'd chime in.

I'll do more reading and thanks again for the help.



Thanks. I will get into reloading. It only makes sense. Cheaper, tailored loads, lighter loads for practice etc.

I'm not really worried about the costs of rebarreling. But as I shared above, if I can spend a little more upfront to get a nicer gun, which also makes it cheaper to rebarrel later, then I'd probably do it. I'd rather buy smart the first time, as with my binocular example. Which is why I'm here researching. Still trying to learn the costs and sweet spots. I really appreciate the help here. Thanks again.

No need to appologize, I started this thread for a discussion! My advice would be to buy the hunting rifle you want and use it for hunting. Be mindful of the calibers you choose from, if you really plan on shooting it that much.. as some will wear out barrels much faster than others once you get into the overbore catridges. However, I don’t think there’s a do-all rifle you’re looking for, I’ve tried. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a smith able to heat lock a new barrel on a European rifle. You’d want threaded. And a more expensive rifle is not cheaper to rebarrel, its more expensive to rebarrel if you want the same quality as the original or better. If cost is of a “medium concern” and like I was saying before, get two rifles. Like capp325 points out...pick the right tool. You could prob find a cheaper bench rest rifle to practice with. The 223 is a great caliber for that and with a heavier barrel it would have a long life. Or if ur getting into reloading lighter grain 308 match ammo, less recoil.

Note: the two rifles I was comparing in the start of thread have 20” med heavy barrels.
 
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First, you have to decide if you want a rifle for hunting or target shooting. Since you are planning to reach 10,000 rounds, which is a LOT for a bolt action rifle, I’m going to assume that you are buying it primarily for target shooting. If that’s the case, a hunting rifle like Sako 85 or Mauser would be a very poor choice.

If you are new to rifles, you may not appreciate the fact that a sporter profile barrel that you’d find of a typical hunting rifle can be shot about 3-5 times before having to let the barrel cool off. Otherwise, your groups will start opening up in a very noticeable way. Also, hunting rifles have to be light so that you could carry them in the field conformably for hours. Shooting a lightweight hunting rifle, especially from a prone or sitting position, can get unpleasant pretty fast unless you are shooting something with no recoil like a .223. That’s why target shooting/tactical rifles come with heavy barrels and are in general much heavier that hunting rifles.

You need to pick the right tool for the right job.

Thanks for sharing. The heat issue I'm sort of aware of, but am still learning more. Although, I must admit, I thought it would be closer to 10 rounds on a hunting rifle such as these. Enough to be able to shoot 3 groups of 3 when practicing, or trying new loads.

In terms of the rifle, I'm should have clarified more. Sorry. I can see how you came to that conclusion. Overall, I'm not looking for one "do all" gun. I do believe in having the right tool for the job, and multiple guns with different uses.

I'm thinking .22 / .223 would take the majority of the rounds fired each year. But I do want to practice will my hunting rifles as well. 500-750 rounds a year perhaps? Various positions, ranges, elevations, etc.

I use to bow shoot a lot as a teenager, so I do believe in keeping skills up with each tool I plan on using (thus I practiced a lot of instinctive recurve, as well as compound). From my understanding most barrels in the hunting calibres I'm looking at (leaning towards a 7mm-08 for a small bore rifle) last 4000-5000 arounds before needing a new one. So I would perhaps get 7-8 years out of one? I don't mind paying for a rebarrel, but I did want to take that into account with the rifle I buy, that's all. As I tried to share above (post #27).

Does that make sense? Hopefully that helps to explain where I'm coming from.

No need to appologize, I started this thread for a discussion! My advice would be to buy the hunting rifle you want and use it for hunting. Be mindful of the calibers you choose from, if you really plan on shooting it that much.. as some will wear out barrels much faster than others once you get into the overbore catridges. However, I don’t think there’s a do-all rifle you’re looking for, I’ve tried. Also, you would be hard pressed to find a smith able to heat lock a new barrel on a European rifle. You’d want threaded. And a more expensive rifle is not cheaper to rebarrel, its more expensive to rebarrel if you want the same quality as the original or better. If cost is of a “medium concern” and like I was saying before, get two rifles. Like capp325 points out...pick the right tool. You could prob find a cheaper bench rest rifle to practice with. The 223 is a great caliber for that and with a heavier barrel it would have a long life. Or if ur getting into reloading lighter grain 308 match ammo, less recoil.

Note: the two rifles I was comparing in the start of thread have 20” med heavy barrels.

Thanks for the info. I'll be sure to look for a threaded barrel. I do know costs go up with quality, that's okay. I was more so thinking about issues I'm not aware of yet, like press fit barrels vs threaded. Thanks!

I do also plan on having a few rifles (22 and .223 come to mind, probably both) and those will take the majority of the use. Then something for mid size and plains game (which will be my primary hunting rifle at first, leaning towards 7mm-08). Then eventually something for large/dangerous game. .338 perhaps?

As I shared above, I like to develop and keep my skills up with whatever I do. One of my good friends used to shoot about 5000 rounds a year, and as I previous bow shooter, he won me over to the idea. So while I may only run 500-750 rounds through a hunting rifle per year, I want to be able to shoot it, anywhere, anytime, any range, elevation etc. So I'm just trying to take into account that kind of use, and the eventual rebarrel which comes. As I said, just trying to learn.

Thanks again for the help.
 
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Sorry, I cannot provide any first hand input on the Sauers...but there are not a lot of Sauer dealers in my region. All accounts read have been good.
But I have had, and do own, a few Sakos over the past 29 years. I currently have a custom lh AV in 7MM STW, a lh 85 Hunter in 6.5x55 and a lh L691 Carbine in 30-06 with mannlicher stock (recently acquired; first I have ever seen). And I have another lh 85 Hunter on order in 9.3x62, and looking for another lh 85 Hunter now, in 338 Federal (or 308 Win to rebarrel to 338 Federal).

I have not experienced any ejection problems on my 85 in 6.5x55 to date, and have a Swarovski 3-10x42 mounted in low Optilokt rings.
(Is this scenario similar to the Rem 700 trigger issue which no one can seem to duplicate when they keep their fingers off of the trigger??? Yet still seems to cause a mass hysetria)

The Sako's are beautiful rifles, with very smooth actions and great triggers (IMHO) and have proven to be very accurate with both factory ammunition and handloads.
And the actions just get smoother with use. As faras push feed vs controlled round feed, I am not convinced that there is any special difference between the two in reliability in the field; they both work equally well. I have never had to cycle a rifle action upside down! LOL

I do not have deep pockets, and have to save for new rifles and custom builds, but am willing to pay for quality to get what I want. It does not help my case that I lam a lefty with a propensity for oddball and non-run-of-the-mill cartridges and rifles (i.e. 250 Savage vs 243, 280 vs 270/30-06, 338 Federal and 338-06, 358 Win, 376 Steyr vs 375 H&H and 416 Taylor vs 416 Remington; mannlicher or full stocked rifles)

As for firing groups, unless hunting, where I need quick follow up shots, I do not let my barrels get hot. When on the bench, whether target practicing, or shooting test loads for load development, I usually give a minute or two between shots, in order to keep the barrel fairly cool, and let it cool between groups. No long strings or back to back groups without breaks. Usually have two or more rifles with me at the range anyway, so this is usually not a problem.
Recommend similar treatment when shooting to prolong barrel life and mitigate throat erosion.

Whichever you choose, I think you will enjoy your new rifle, and hope that you have many great adventures with it!
 
If you like the Sauer 101 but would prefer a 3 position safety perhaps you should try the Mauser M12. It’s built in the same factory as the 101 and is very similar. But it has a 3 position safety and a few minor changes. I have one in 30-06, it’s accurate, has a spectacular trigger, feeds and ejects flawlessly, and handles like a dream.
 
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