Based on the newspaper article, they definitely seem like low-lifes and deserve what they got. The only thing I wonder is if anything was left out of the story? For example - was this a problem bear that the guy had been trying to get rid of for a long time? If, and only if, this was the case, he couldn't very well leave the cubs to die of exposure/starvation. I'm just always reticent to come to judgement based on media clippings. As gun owners, we should all know by experience how dangerous that can be.
Alaskan father and son sentenced for killing a bear and her shrieking cubs
- Thread starter kc34
- Start date
nomad 68
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Are denned bears usually problem bears? The only problems that should be gotten rid of are the douchebag father and his waste of sperm kid imho.
Look, I didn't say killing them was justified. My point was that we should not rely on media reports to come to judgments. There is wayyyy too much information missing. And, AFAIK, problem bears do den just like non-problem bears.
If someone knows more about this case, I'd love to hear it. If the guys did this for no reason or for thrills, then yeah, they deserve more than they got.
If there is one group in society that really should know better than to rely on media reports, it is us. The media people reporting on this case are the same ones that call SKS' "assault weapons", that claim a significant source of guns for gangbangers is theft form legal gun owners, that straw purchases are also commonly used to supply them with guns. Need I go on????
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
X2, "CNN" should be a red flag to the credibility of any gun related story.
or any story for that matter!
smokin'stoegie
CGN Regular
- Location
- S/West Ontario
Lot of interesting points and that was a despicable act for sure that resulted in some extremely heavy consequences.
I wonder when our society will start having the same reaction to scum bags committing similar acts on other people.
Lawyers, courts and divisive groups throughout seem to take that in stride now.
...And before anybody loses their sh#t over my comments I am speaking about the media response to this.
I wonder when our society will start having the same reaction to scum bags committing similar acts on other people.
Lawyers, courts and divisive groups throughout seem to take that in stride now.
...And before anybody loses their sh#t over my comments I am speaking about the media response to this.
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Not just a media report
AK18027153
Location: Esther Island- Prince William Sound
Type: Unlawful Take- Bear and Cubs
Dispatch Text:
On 8/6/2018, Andrew Renner, 41 of Palmer, and Owen Renner, 18 of Palmer, were charged by information on felony and misdemeanor charges stemming from a poaching incident on 4/14/2018. A. Renner and O. Renner shot and killed a sow black bear, along with its two cubs, in its den on Esther Island in Prince William Sound. The bears were a part of a USFS/ADF&G bear study. As a part of the study, the sow was collared and a motion activated game audio/video camera was set up at the den site. The video shows A. Renner and O. Renner skiing up to the den and then O. Renner firing two shots at the denning sow. A. Renner then kills the shrieking newborn bear cubs and discards their bodies away from the den. Two days after the animals were killed, A. Renner and O. Renner return to the kill site to pick up the shells and to dispose of the dead bear cubs. On 4/30/2018, A. Renner brought the sow black bear skin and the collar to ADF&G in Palmer and reported he killed the animal near Granite Bay in Prince William Sound on 4/14/2018. He further reported that while he realized after shooting it that the sow had teats, no cubs were present or located. The vessel, vehicle used to facilitate the hunt, and hunting rifles were seized during the investigation. Charges against the men include Unlawfully Take Female Bear with Cubs, Unlawfully Take Bear Cub x 2, Possess/Transport Illegally Taken Game x 3. A. Renner was additionally charged with Tampering with Physical Evidence, Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor and Unsworn Falsification in the Second Degree.
Posted on 8/8/2018 8:48:11 AM by DPS\mapeters
Section: AK Wildlife State Troopers
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Ain't that the truth!
My buddy got his license suspended. Got caught driving with suspended license, suspension got extended. At no point did he stop driving.
Happy to see they took his truck, boat, and firearms. That's what really hurts these people IMO.
I'm far less spiteful towards the kid though. 18 year olds are highly impressionable, and bad things can happen when your dad is total scum. He probably should have known better, but hopefully he'll learn from this and straighten up in the future.
That gives it credibility. The guy should have been charged a fine in the 6 figures. I guess the truck, boat, gun(s), and lawyer fees increase the severity, and then there are the criminal offences. That may serve as a deterrent.
I cannot even imagine what type of idiot would do this to a bear in it's den
Cheers
Being convicted as a Felon, in the States is a little short of getting branded on the forehead, but it sure does carry a whole lot of connotations for the dude's future.
Guy was about nine kinds of dumb, and I don't figure he isn't getting what he has coming, but frankly, some of the dudes around here are wailing like a bunch of church ladies on about 'the children'.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Nice "holier than thou" attitude. I know several farmers that shoot bears on sight, cubs or no cubs, sometimes shooting them in the guts deliberately so they don't die on the spot. Nothing gets done, they're "protecting" their bees or livestock. These ones happened to be in a den, that's the only difference......and Alaska takes wildlife offences VERY seriously. Good on them.
Based on the article from the State, it would appear that these guys were simply douches out to get their jollies, and they deserved more than what they got. To add to bearkilr's post, though - here in Ontario, with governments cutting back MNR budgets, if you call them about problem animals, you're on your own. They won't raise a finger to help. And bears can devastate honey operations as well as orchards of all kinds, and attack livestock. They can also drive tourists away from campgrounds. I don't think this was the case, based on the second quoted article, but if the guy had called the CO's time ad again about problem bears, with no results, and happened to come across the den, I don't agree with what he did, but I can understand it. Bears can cost farmers tens of thousands of dollars.
As a group, we have to be really careful about jumping to conclusions. We are very often subject to the same tactics on the part of the media. I can recall an article way back when that said Ian Thompson had fired at trespassers. And it was true. Shooting people for trespassing is generally frowned upon, even in the U.S. It's just that they forgot to mention that the "trespassers" were trying to burn his house down with him inside.
Big bore dinosaur
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- NORT OF COW.TOWN.EH
Makes a good case, for corporal punishment,,
Kain some feet , if you ask me..
That would fix stupid
Kain some feet , if you ask me..
That would fix stupid
Instilling brains into judges makes more sense. Mandatory sentences, IMHO, are NFG. There are always cases where these things don't quite fit. For example, the theoretical example above about the trouble bear. If judges used common sense and sentenced based on the actual intent and circumstances, it would be much better. Outright poaching should be punished to the max, whereas "explainable" cases should be cut some slack.
bearkilr
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Nowhere, ......just past the middle
Shooting every bear you come across to protect your livestock or honey is not OK.
