First Handgun; 9mm vs .22

CBeats3 said:
Thanks everyone for your input. Ideally I would get a 9mm, either the SP-01 or P226 and the compatible .22 conversion kit. But for the price of the kit, it seems the same to just get a dedicated 9mm and .22. I think I'll go the route of a .22 first then, probably very soon after, a 9mm :)
I'll look into trying different handguns at ranges, and I'll look into Silverdale specifically. Whenever I went to Urban Tactical I usually just paid for a gun package, not thinking I can ask for specific handguns. I'll remember this for the next time I go. Which will probably be next weekend haha
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You can actually get the Sig P226 classic 22 and the 9mm x-change kit for not much more than the P226 in 9mm
 
geologist said:
The advantage is that you are shooting the same pistol frame, trigger, sights (at least similar) and controls.

With the .22 LR conversion kit mounted the pistol will be lighter weight and the recoil will be much less than 9mm so some people say that training drills like double tap or failure to stop are worthless as the recoil will be so slight.

I have a GLOCK17 gen 3 with an Advantage Arms .22 kit with 4 magazines and it works great with CCI Minimags.
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Glad your Glock works well. In my Shadow, I need a 15# or 16# mainspring to work well. I will *NOT* be changing mainsprings to use the Kadet. So it sits unused.

fwiw, people who say some drills like Failure to Stop, (2 to the body, 1 shot to the head) are useless with a .22, they really need to think about the big picture. There are plenty of skills and neural pathway improvements you can gain from using a .22 in drills like that. Just like rapid firing a .22 during a mag dump type of exercise, it can really help your training with the right focus, standards, and knowing what to look for. A .22 will definitely have limitations in the recoil dept, but it isn't as useless as some people think.
 
jimbp14 I am surprised your kit requires heavier springs. I run 13# springs in my CZ's and my kit runs like a clock with even the cheapest bulk .22. What do you run for springs in your Shadow?

Take Care

Bob
 
Try Bullseye London....don’t go into Silverdale...any yes 22lr all day long...Stay with what is proven and good resale...the new Ruger or Browning....1911 platform is nice to start with.
 
What feels best watching action movies with? A very short amount of time this gun will see the range, even more time will be spent fingering, racking, decocking, drawing, pew pewin, and wishing you were at the range. What guns have you always wanted and which of those feel good in the hands.
Jokes people, just jokes....sorta.
 
Canuck44 said:
jimbp14 I am surprised your kit requires heavier springs. I run 13# springs in my CZ's and my kit runs like a clock with even the cheapest bulk .22. What do you run for springs in your Shadow?

Take Care

Bob
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13#

Likes bulk Fed, but I haven't shot it in several years. I have a second Shadow now and sometimes I think about setting that up specifically for the Kadet, and then I say screw it, and just use a different .22 for training.
 
jimbo14 said:
13#

Likes bulk Fed, but I haven't shot it in several years. I have a second Shadow now and sometimes I think about setting that up specifically for the Kadet, and then I say screw it, and just use a different .22 for training.
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Ya I must say my Kadet doesn't get much use. I find the Ruger SP-01 Revolver in .22 with it's heavy trigger pull helps me work on my revolver trigger pulls for the 686 and GP-100 but I doubt I get much benefit out of the Kadet. With no recoil you can develop some bad habits quickly. For practicing driving the trigger fast it helps quite a bit and is less expensive then plugging away with my reloaded 9MM's.

Take Care

Bob
 
Canuck44 said:
Ya I must say my Kadet doesn't get much use. I find the Ruger SP-01 Revolver in .22 with it's heavy trigger pull helps me work on my revolver trigger pulls for the 686 and GP-100 but I doubt I get much benefit out of the Kadet. With no recoil you can develop some bad habits quickly. For practicing driving the trigger fast it helps quite a bit and is less expensive then plugging away with my reloaded 9MM's.

Take Care

Bob
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What bad habits with a .22 have you found that concern you?

For me, I really work on separating the decision to fire from the act of firing. So a .22 is perfect practice for all initial shots on targets. Transition to the next target, get your sight picture, then begin the act of firing. Growing that visual processing portion of your brain is important. Recoil means squat here. Doing multiple shots on target, sure, there will be a huge difference between .22 and 9mm, but to me, I distill it down to deciding when to fire, then firing.

It has been over 18 months since I did a drill like this, but I set up mini IPSC targets at 20 yds, (4" wide A-zone). Then proceeded to shoot a mag from my .22 into the A-zone, going for 10/10. I'd easily get 9+/10 with 0.8 sec splits. Moving to 9mm, the splits grew, as expected, due to the larger recoil. So a mag into the A-zone was now at 1.0 sec splits. I needed the extra 0.2 sec to establish a precise sight picture due to the extra recoil. My grip strength is the same, focus on the FSP, process my sight picture, then let 'er rip.
 
jimbo14 said:
What bad habits with a .22 have you found that concern you?

For me, I really work on separating the decision to fire from the act of firing. So a .22 is perfect practice for all initial shots on targets. Transition to the next target, get your sight picture, then begin the act of firing. Growing that visual processing portion of your brain is important. Recoil means squat here. Doing multiple shots on target, sure, there will be a huge difference between .22 and 9mm, but to me, I distill it down to deciding when to fire, then firing.

It has been over 18 months since I did a drill like this, but I set up mini IPSC targets at 20 yds, (4" wide A-zone). Then proceeded to shoot a mag from my .22 into the A-zone, going for 10/10. I'd easily get 9+/10 with 0.8 sec splits. Moving to 9mm, the splits grew, as expected, due to the larger recoil. So a mag into the A-zone was now at 1.0 sec splits. I needed the extra 0.2 sec to establish a precise sight picture due to the extra recoil. My grip strength is the same, focus on the FSP, process my sight picture, then let 'er rip.
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You ave more discipline than I do. For new shooters it is pretty easy to get low in the grip, or not hang on to the gun properly, etc because without recoil it is pretty easy to align the sights and pull the trigger without a lot of attention to the grip or stance. We quit having winter IDPA style .22 shoots up here because even head shots were not much of a challenge using our .22LR, that and trying to find the small holes when it is cold just was not worth it.

Just my experience but unless you are a dedicated bullseye shooter or have the discipline of Jobe I just don't get much real benefit out of my .22. The fun factor though can be through the roof while chasing tin cans or golf balls across a bay.

Take Care

Bob
 
I go back to shooting my 22lr (Ruger MKIII) when I think I'm developing some bad habits with the center-fires. That said...I enjoy shooting the .22lr with my off-hand for the practice and for a different view of the target.
 
If one wants to learn to shoot fast and accurate then 22lr conversion kit on a 9mm frame (there is no better then kadet on a shadow) is the way to go.
one just needs to learn proper techniques while using 22 which is much much easier to do than with a 9.
that's what I did - and my results show that.
if your goal is bulls eye and not rapid fire - then a dedicated 22 may be a way to go,
might get boring though

I train with my kadet kit all the time. my first 200-300 rounds are with it on every outing. then I follow up with 200-300 of 9mm.
 
OP, I am in the same boat as you - waiting for my RPAL to show up in the mail any day now. I am thinking of getting a P226 Enhanced Elite and the .22 conversion kit. It seems like going the other way around would be cheaper but I wanted the SRT and the E2 grips which is not offered in the stock P226 classic 22. I've held the 226 with the standard and E2 grip and I prefer the latter more because of my small hands.

I was looking at the Shadow 2 as well, but couldn't find the 22LR Kadet kit for the Shadow 2 on any online store other than Wolverine which is OOS.
 
The 22 conversion kits are neat in theory, but you're paying for the equivalent of 2 guns and only have 1 to play with.

I seriously considered that option myself when getting into it, but I must say, I'm happy I didn't. If I want to bring a friend
with me to the range, introduce them to the sport, I have options to shoot at the same time, I can let them shoot lots and
have fun for cheap cheap and when I feel like going back and forth with both guns on the bench, it's just a matter of choosing
one or the other, no messing around.

This S&W Victory is a great lil 22, got one myself and after 2 buds tried mine, immediately ordered one for themselves to
compliment their multiple 9mm, 45acp and even another 22.......has been on sale for a little less, but $419 is great value!

https://www.gotenda.com/shop/firearms/handguns/smith-wesson-sw22-victory-22-lr-pistol/


You can buy this one new and probably never lose $100 at any point you decide to sell, seems no-brainer to me.

It's got nice weight too, not one of those lightweight poly guns, a great shooter and tons of mods if you go down that path.
 
Canuck44 said:
You ave more discipline than I do. For new shooters it is pretty easy to get low in the grip, or not hang on to the gun properly, etc because without recoil it is pretty easy to align the sights and pull the trigger without a lot of attention to the grip or stance.
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I find the same ones who do that also do the same with larger guns. The big guns just fly around more. That's why I'm a huge advocate of proper training. I think we're on the same page here.

Canuck44 said:
We quit having winter IDPA style .22 shoots up here because even head shots were not much of a challenge using our .22LR, that and trying to find the small holes when it is cold just was not worth it.
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All you had to say is shooting outside in winter is freaking cold up yonder. I get it. I woudn't shoot in winter either. lol!
As far as .22 not being much of a challenge, then you are shooting too slow. ;)

Canuck44 said:
Just my experience but unless you are a dedicated bullseye shooter or have the discipline of Jobe I just don't get much real benefit out of my .22. The fun factor though can be through the roof while chasing tin cans or golf balls across a bay.

Take Care

Bob
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My job that pays for my shooting habit is to analyse people and learning processes and find a way to teach people so they learn more effectively. You can probably see where I'm coming from now. :)
 
Rye_one said:
A new shooter showed up at my local range with his brand new 9mm - and ended up spending most of his time there with the 22 I lent him because the 9mm was too hot for him to handle.

If you have the opportunity, try before you buy at a rental range - whatever way you go, you’ll be confident with the choice.
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If 9 mm is "too hot to handle", the new shorter should probably consider a different hobby. 9 mm is a pretty mild caliber, unless you are shooting a very compact, lightweight gun. .22 is more akin to shooting an air gun than a real pistol. You will never learn recoil management with .22, which is the most important aspect of handgun shooting.
 
I went with a 9mm for my first hundgun as I own and shot rifles of all calibers and I’m very happy I did. And if I ever get into ispc I could use it
 
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