If you could only have one
- Thread starter HooliganD
- Start date
Do you mean SP-01 Phantom?
Shadow all the way for competitions.
Sights - fibreoptic is much faster to acquire
Fire control group - stock config is better, no firing pin block, availability of upgrades
Grip - easy to tune by replacing the grips
22LR Kadet kit available
Etc etc
Phantom is not bad per se, but Shadow offers a lot more for your stated purpose and costs about the same ($799 + shipping right now).
While I have never competed in any IDPA competitions, our local club was having an IDPA night every week several years ago. I had a CZ 85 dual tone in 40 at the time and had a lot of fun with it. Accracy was very good with the Blazer Brass 180 gr ammo. Yes, the 40 is more expensive to shoot, but I like how it performs compared to the 9mm, which I had previously owned two CZ 75's in.
When they introduced the SP-01's I sold my dual tone in order to get the SP-01 Tactical in 40. Took a long while to find, but finally got one.
I went with the Tactical as I liked the decocker and night sights, as we were often shooting right up til last light.
At the time, it was getting the better review by competitors, with the only modification they were doing was a trigger job by the CZ custom shop.
When they introduced the SP-01's I sold my dual tone in order to get the SP-01 Tactical in 40. Took a long while to find, but finally got one.
I went with the Tactical as I liked the decocker and night sights, as we were often shooting right up til last light.
At the time, it was getting the better review by competitors, with the only modification they were doing was a trigger job by the CZ custom shop.
A steel gun like the Shadow will tame recoil better than a plastic gun. This will have more of an impact on newer shooters. Once you learn how to properly grip a pistol, that will become less of an issue. Then when experienced, it can come down to which you prefer - easier to transition a lighter gun vs easier to tame recoil with a heavier gun. You can train to adapt to either, and do very well with either.
Of course by that time you've spent literally thousands and thousands on ammo so the slight cost difference in a gun just won't matter at all in the scheme of things. lol!
I...don't know what to say~
Jimbo14 and I have a running bet about when I'll buy a Shadow. He keeps destroying the field whenever he shows up. Damn IPSC gamers!
I refuse to ever buy one based on stubbornness now. We will switch guns at the next IDPA match and I'll shoot his Shadow and he'll use my Glock. I'm curious to see how we do.
Work on your skill level a new gun won;t beat him but better shooting will. (Still Alive replies, "Thank you Capt. Obvious"
To HoolganD : Glocks and M&P's dominate the US IDPA Nationals across the three main pistol Divisions in the form of the G34 and the M&P Pro. and have done so for a number of years. Polymer guns dominate all of the pistol divisions. That said, most of the IDPA shooters mostly either shoot what they carry in the US or stick to whatever gun they brought to the sport initially. For the most part the IDPA crowd are a lunch bucket group. Having CSO's the WA State match for the past 11 years about 60% of the shooters run what they carry and the balance chase their dreams with guns more tuned for competition. ie G34, M&P Pro, and lately the 320 SIG and PPQ MAtch.
You might conclude it really doesn't matter what you buy and you would be right. If it meets weight and fits in the box AND you really like the gun...go for it. You are only in it for the fun factor. If it turns out you really like to practice and you are driven to succeed then you might want to go up the food chain. Just remember the additional money you spend on the gun is not a linear path to fame and fortune. Vogel won the IPSC World Production title with a Glock 17 - so can you if you have the talent
Over the past couple of years I have seen a few more CZ Shadows/75B.85 Combats play but not many. A large part of IDPA in the US is driven by CCW permit holders and most don't carry steel guns. Put a Shadow on your hip and walk around your house all day and you will get the idea quick that lighter is better. I do believe that lighter guns do have a a slight advantage over heavier guns in IDPA. Stages are shorter, the target often spread out more and the time your transitions from one target to another make up a higher percentage of your total score then they might on longer field courses as does your draw time. Small differences to be sure but lots of matches are won and lost by seconds. Just an opinion of course and some may say it really doesn't matter. The best shooters win no matter what they carry.
Take Care
Bob
ps Just starting out? Pick up an M&P or Glock used off the EE and go play. You will have fun.
pps Buy a cheap Hawaiian shirt and tell the MD Bob sent you. LOL
Still alive
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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Er,....thank you Capt. Obvious?
Me vs. jimbo comes down to mindset and planning how to run a stage. Jimbo is an A Level IPSC shooter and he has no qualms about expanding multiple rounds so he can do a reload between targets faster or making sure he has the hits. He also plans on where and how he moves on each stage. I, on the other hand, won’t prepare for a stage. I remember the general directions and approach each stage “blind” ie. I try not to plan anything, kinda in the line of what IDPA is suppose to be. I want to be surprised so to speak and hope my training kicks in. I also conserve my rounds so accuracy is a bigger thing for me.
This will always make me slower than him.
Good advice there Bob! Including the Hawaiian shirt! That’s my cover garment in the summer!
Me vs. jimbo comes down to mindset and planning how to run a stage. Jimbo is an A Level IPSC shooter and he has no qualms about expanding multiple rounds so he can do a reload between targets faster or making sure he has the hits. He also plans on where and how he moves on each stage. I, on the other hand, won’t prepare for a stage. I remember the general directions and approach each stage “blind” ie. I try not to plan anything, kinda in the line of what IDPA is suppose to be. I want to be surprised so to speak and hope my training kicks in. I also conserve my rounds so accuracy is a bigger thing for me.
This will always make me slower than him.
Good advice there Bob! Including the Hawaiian shirt! That’s my cover garment in the summer!
The 2019 rules allow for a 3lbs trigger pull every pull, this in theory should level the playing field a bit between polymer striker fires and steel DA/SA. I don't think it'll make much of a difference though.
Knowing what I know now after almost 30 years of trying all types of platforms, I would choose one of the following:
A: 1911 in 9mm. Either a commander or a CCO. You can get Wilson magazines holding up to 10 rounds with special baseplates to prevent magazine over travel. The Dan Wesson Vigil series would give you semi custom like performance at a reasonable price.
B: For polymer. Glock 48.
With both choices, no stupid pinocchio barrel, you also get a nice slim gun holding the legal maximum with no stupid neutered magazines. Since we live in Canada and can't CCW, weight isn't an issue so the 1911 would be better for competition.
A: 1911 in 9mm. Either a commander or a CCO. You can get Wilson magazines holding up to 10 rounds with special baseplates to prevent magazine over travel. The Dan Wesson Vigil series would give you semi custom like performance at a reasonable price.
B: For polymer. Glock 48.
With both choices, no stupid pinocchio barrel, you also get a nice slim gun holding the legal maximum with no stupid neutered magazines. Since we live in Canada and can't CCW, weight isn't an issue so the 1911 would be better for competition.
For now, I need to shoot. I finally got my ammo supplies restocked so I'm off to the range this weekend and will spend time with my 1911 (norinco np29) and hopefully some time on my buddy's Glock 17.
I know I want to add a polymer pistol to the fold and the Shadow SP-01 I've loved since the first time I held one. Haven't shot one yet, that might just sell me on it. I know I'll eventually buy both. I'm just trying to be judicious in my spending as I do have a family, I just myself a new truck and I ride a motorcycle for fun which also gets expensive (freaking MPI!)
I know I want to add a polymer pistol to the fold and the Shadow SP-01 I've loved since the first time I held one. Haven't shot one yet, that might just sell me on it. I know I'll eventually buy both. I'm just trying to be judicious in my spending as I do have a family, I just myself a new truck and I ride a motorcycle for fun which also gets expensive (freaking MPI!)
I believe that applies only to DA/SA guns now with the 3#minimum pull applying only to striker fired pistols who shoot in Production as of Jan 1/19. With the change in mind, I will be playing at club shoots this year with one of my striker fired guns in Production unless I opt for Optic Division.
Take Care
Bob
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DA/SA or striker makes no real difference in the rules. What I wrote came directly from the Jan 2019 IPSC rulebook. They go into more detail about the exact test procedures, but in both sections of 5lb for the first shot, and in the alternate category of 3lb for every shot, BOTH hammers and strikers are referenced.
For us Production guys, the bottom line is that if your first shot is at least 5lb, then there is no restriction how light subsequent shots can be.
The alternate category is all shots need to be at least 3lb.
We are saying the same thing except you seem to be suggesting "you Production guys" are different. You DA/SA guys will be shooting against we striker guys with 3# triggers in the same Division.
Yup DA/SA Minimum 1st Shot 5#'s then as low as the gun will go
Striker Fired Minimum 3#s constant
It will be interesting to find out how competitive the polymer guns will be against the Shadow2 and Tanfoglio 111. Maybe CZ will have to make a Shadow3 steel striker fired gun similar to the PPQ MatchSF. :>)
Take Care
Bob
Yup DA/SA Minimum 1st Shot 5#'s then as low as the gun will go
Striker Fired Minimum 3#s constant
It will be interesting to find out how competitive the polymer guns will be against the Shadow2 and Tanfoglio 111. Maybe CZ will have to make a Shadow3 steel striker fired gun similar to the PPQ MatchSF. :>)
Take Care
Bob
