Maple Ridge Armoury Match Nitride 5R 18.6" 308 barrel issues.

[Maple Ridge Armourer]

Keep us posted about this. MRA is getting a lot of bad press lately... Seems like they need to step up their QA on the barrels.

I got one of these in fluted SPR profile but have not mounted it yet. The gas port and extension pin line up and test fitting looked fine. Many others seemed to be fine too so I'm hoping yours is just one of the bad ones (out of almost 4,000 barrels made , according to MRA) that slipped through...

Two recent QA issues out of 300 barrels a month is not what I would consider a lot of bad press. This is less than 1%. I am sure your barrel is good to go but we are always here to back our products and support our customers. If you actually have any warranty issue please let us know and we will definitely make it right.

PS. One of the QA issues was resolved to the customers satisfaction and we are working on this one as you can see.

 

[Maple Ridge Armourer]

That extension looks like it is peeling....that is very concerning. I have yet to install mine and I believe MRA buys these extensions from a 3rd party....I sure hope this is not the norm.

1 case out of just under 4000 is not what I would call "the norm"

 

[Maple Ridge Armourer]

Nitride finish would be better IF they are smooth and free of tool marks and burrs.

There are no burrs and all critical surfaces are properly ground after heat treat and free of any machining marks.

 

[Maple Ridge Armourer]

Interesting... So the force might've been too much for the pin to handle and it broke loose?

Not likely, the barrel nut is torqued on at 140 ft-lb and the pin is made from HTSR steel and hammered into place, it is very hard.

The barrel nut being twisted on to 45 ft-lbs is only squeezing the barrel extension into the receiver and not rotating the barrel or barrel nut.

Now this could have occurred if the barrel nut was not sufficiently tightened and then a muzzle device was torqued on thus twisting the barrel inside of the receiver causing the pin to pull into the softer 7075 or 6061 alloy receiver. This in turn could have pulled the pin free of the barrel extension hole since at this point the pin would have had lateral and pulling force applied to it by the receiver.

 

[Bonjour43ma]

I appreciate the detailed explanations.

 

[mileageman]

Not likely, the barrel nut is torqued on at 140 ft-lb and the pin is made from HTSR steel and hammered into place, it is very hard.

The barrel nut being twisted on to 45 ft-lbs is only squeezing the barrel extension into the receiver and not rotating the barrel or barrel nut.

Now this could have occurred if the barrel nut was not sufficiently tightened and then a muzzle device was torqued on thus twisting the barrel inside of the receiver causing the pin to pull into the softer 7075 or 6061 alloy receiver. This in turn could have pulled the pin free of the barrel extension hole since at this point the pin would have had lateral and pulling force applied to it by the receiver.

Ah I think you need to change barrel nut to barrel extension in a few places in that post.

And depending on how you hold the lower while torquing the barrel nut will determine how much pressure is put on the index pin. For example using a Geissele reaction rod vs using a vise block that just holds the upper receiver.

 

[jiffx2781]

To answer another question about the plating, we use a NiB plating to increase surface wear and corrosion resistance. The extensions are not stainless steel, they are 8620 and will corrode if not oiled or otherwise treated. The cost of plating vs Nitride is very close and the NiB has served us well for two years so we will continue to use this process. The extensions are machined for us under contract and then plated at a professional plating company with Aerospace and Defence contracts. We have certificates of conformity for our plating along with all of our other post-production processes.

Thanks for taking the time to provide an explanation.

Further to that would I be correct that Nitride treatment of an assembled stainless barrel would NOT be ideal due to the way the heat from the process would effect the different materials that the barrel and extension are made from?

Reason I ask is because I was looking into having one of the stainless barrels I got from you nitrided.

What would you suggest? Bad idea to do it or not? Thanks

 

[Maple Ridge Armourer]

Thanks for taking the time to provide an explanation.

Further to that would I be correct that Nitride treatment of an assembled stainless barrel would NOT be ideal due to the way the heat from the process would effect the different materials that the barrel and extension are made from?

Reason I ask is because I was looking into having one of the stainless barrels I got from you nitrided.

What would you suggest? Bad idea to do it or not? Thanks

Yes the extension and the barrel will react differently to the Nitride. We do not recommend doing this.

Furthermore, stainless steel requires some very expensive processes before Nitride to prepare the steel for Nitride otherwise you will experience embrittlement with the case and it would ruin the barrel. This process is very expensive.

 

[jiffx2781]

Yes the extension and the barrel will react differently to the Nitride. We do not recommend doing this.

Furthermore, stainless steel requires some very expensive processes before Nitride to prepare the steel for Nitride otherwise you will experience embrittlement with the case and it would ruin the barrel. This process is very expensive.

Ok, bad idea. I kinda figured it would be.

Thanks again.

 

[b_w.]

Curious as to what receiver this was installed in. Did you lubricate the barrel nut? I had to locktite barrels into the upper on the three BCL's I built to prevent the pins from twisting slightly into the soft aluminum while using the reaction rod.

 

[mileageman]

Curious as to what receiver this was installed in. Did you lubricate the barrel nut? I had to locktite barrels into the upper on the three BCL's I built to prevent the pins from twisting slightly into the soft aluminum while using the reaction rod.

Don't know if this will fit a BCL 102 Upper, but I can assure you it will fit a Stag 10 Upper. Then you won't have the majority of the torque being transmitted through the indexing pin in the barrel extension while tightening the barrel nut.

 

[ryushi]

We are not receiving emails to info@mapleridgearmoury.com right now, we are working to correct this. Please send all emails to ryanj@victoryridgesports.ca for the time being.

This is the first case of an index pin coming loose and of the NiB plating flaking. This is not anything that could have been caught in QC and it is highly unusual.

The barrel extensions are torqued on at 140ft-lb and the index pin is hammered into place. FYI It is the torque on the barrel nut that holds it in place on the barrel. The index pin is there to index the barrel to the receiver and although it does recess slightly into the barrel chamber threads, it is doing very little to hold the barrel nut in place.

To answer another question about the plating, we use a NiB plating to increase surface wear and corrosion resistance. The extensions are not stainless steel, they are 8620 and will corrode if not oiled or otherwise treated. The cost of plating vs Nitride is very close and the NiB has served us well for two years so we will continue to use this process. The extensions are machined for us under contract and then plated at a professional plating company with Aerospace and Defence contracts. We have certificates of conformity for our plating along with all of our other post-production processes.

Now to address the warranty issue.

Who originally installed the barrel for you?

It would have taken an extreme amount of rotational force applied directly to the barrel for the extension to loosen from the barrel even without an index pin in place. During installation of the the barrel nut only the receiver and barrel extension are contacted by the nut and rotational force is only applied to the barrel nut. Under what circumstances was rotational force applied to the barrel?

As for the index pin coming loose, the only thing I can think of is an out of tolerance pin or nut. If the pin was on the short side of the tolerance and the hole in the nut was on the high side of that tolerance, then stacking these tolerances, I could see how the pin may have seemed tight during installation but lateral force being applied the pin could have pulled it free. If the pin was so loose as to slide into the hole easily then we would have caught this during installation and scrapped either the pin or the extension. Of course the NiB plating adds about 0.0005" so this would make the index pin hole smaller by 0.001" meaning the pin or the extension would have to be waaaaaaaaay out of tolerance which should have been caught during assembly and QC.

Of course this definitely sounds like it is covered under our limited lifetime warranty and we will replace the barrel. Please email us at ryanj@victoryridgesports.ca and provide the following:

Copy of receipt
Description of issue and events leading up to manifestation of the issue
Images of the product complete plus areas of concern

Hello, thanks for the great response. I installed the barrel myself using the proper tools and torque specs 40-50lbs as to the hand guard manufacture instructions. It was a Odin works O2 lite. I'm using a reaction bar and use it to install and remove my muzzle device too. On my initial installation I didn't notice any movement with the pin nothing caught my attention. It was when I removed the barrel and reinstalled it, this is when I noticed the movement of the barrel in the receiver. I'm only using my fingers to move the pin, It rocks from side to side but does not come out. I have not tried to pull the pin out with pliers just my fingers, I didn't want to scratch the barrel extension. When I removed the barrel the second time because of the movement, was when I saw that the face of the extension was pealing and the deformation on my upper receiver, which is a Stag 10 btw.

I've installed a lot of barrels on AR 15's, but this is my first Ar10 build. I've torqued on AR 15 barrel nuts harder than this with no problems, so I don't know if I did something wrong or not. I've never seen this problem before, with the alinement pin and the flaking of the Nickel boron. There are also burrs on the feed ramps of the extension. I will email you more detailed pictures as well.

Thanks for your time and response.

 

[b_w.]

Don't want to use a reaction rod to change a muzzle device. Should clamp the barrel instead. Can unscrew the barrel from the extension.

 

[ryushi]

Don't want to use a reaction rod to change a muzzle device. Should clamp the barrel instead. Can unscrew the barrel from the extension.

I only tighten to about 20-30lbs. I'm pretty sure it won't loosen the extension.

 

[Trinimon]

OP, looks like you're in good hands. Bummer about the slightly damaged upper receiver. Looking forward to a range review. I'm looking at maybe picking up one of these barrels myself. Just need to see how accurate my stock Stag barrel is first.

Don't want to use a reaction rod to change a muzzle device. Should clamp the barrel instead. Can unscrew the barrel from the extension.

If you can unscrew an extension from changing a muzzle brake using a reaction rod... you're doing something wrong, you have a defective barrel or your muzzle brake is welded in place.
Extensions are torqued to 140-150 ft lbs, muzzle brake at 20-30 ft lbs.

 

[purplezuk]

If your barrel had movement after installation, you have done something wrong. The index pin is only needed during installation, the clamping force of the barrel nut holds the barrel in place after assembly.
Sound more like you have a barrel nut that isn’t actually clamping fully, which would then cause the barrel to move/rotate during use which in turn would have actually caused the damage. Maybe I’m reading too deep, but that’s what I see as the root cause if you had barrel movement after it was torqued. ( I have a handguard that required barrel shims to properly clamp in place...)

 

[ryushi]

If your barrel had movement after installation, you have done something wrong. The index pin is only needed during installation, the clamping force of the barrel nut holds the barrel in place after assembly.
Sound more like you have a barrel nut that isn’t actually clamping fully, which would then cause the barrel to move/rotate during use which in turn would have actually caused the damage. Maybe I’m reading too deep, but that’s what I see as the root cause if you had barrel movement after it was torqued. ( I have a handguard that required barrel shims to properly clamp in place...)

I never said that the barrel had movement after installation, the barrel moved during the torquing process.

 

[Brianma65]

I never said that the barrel had movement after installation, the barrel moved during the torquing process.

What happens now?
If you install a new barrel, it won’t index in the right location? Right?
It’ll be advanced enough to the right, to throw off the alignment?

 

[Bonjour43ma]

Don't know if this will fit a BCL 102 Upper, but I can assure you it will fit a Stag 10 Upper. Then you won't have the majority of the torque being transmitted through the indexing pin in the barrel extension while tightening the barrel nut.

Where to buy this?

 

[greg olmstead]

Where to buy this?

Brownells sells them